How do I repair this faucet ???

Hi All,
Can anyone identify this kitchen faucet, and tell me how I can repair it ??? After 18 years, it has started to drip. As you can see, I pulled the handle, and exposed the stem and nut, but it will not unscrew. I flooded it with PB Blaster, and let it sit overnight, but it still will not budge. This faucet might have cartridges, and dissassemble differently--I don't know. I've replaced many washers and washerless cups in my bathroom fixtures (sink, shower, tub), but this is my first kitchen fixture. I put a wrench on the hex, and tried to turn it both ways, but it will not budge. When you turn the handle to start the water flowing, the stem DOES NOT screw out of the faucet--it just spins and starts the water flowing. There is a "U" shaped clip on the stem, at the nut that you can see clearly in 1 of the pictures--that's what makes me think that there is a whole cartridge in there, rather than a stem and washer. Can anyone tell me how to dissassemble this faucet ???
RON
Pictures located at:
http://home.computer.net/~rong/MVC-001S.JPG
http://home.computer.net/~rong/MVC-002S.JPG
http://home.computer.net/~rong/MVC-003S.JPG
http://home.computer.net/~rong/MVC-004S.JPG
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Its a Grohe brand, should be easy enough to find on the web

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Ron in NY wrote:

Ron,
Have you tried unscrewing the roundish outside brass nut first?
Tut

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Ron in NY wrote:

Have a look here for drawing and part list http://www.guillens.com/gcat/classic/21_184.htm
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Ron in NY wrote:

Looks like that "roundish thing" just provides a "wobble preventing bearing surface" for the faucet handle.
Don't use force when trying to unscrew the cartridge....get a bigger wrench. <G>
Seriously, use a deep socket and a long handled socket wrench or slip a "persuader" (an 18" long piece of conduit.) over the handle of a regular 6 inch long socket wrench.
Lean on the wrench handle and if that doesn't do it, then whack the handle with a hammer while applying force.
If it won't come out that way then the faucet is junk anyway, eh?
HTH,
Jeff
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Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat \'57 EE)
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Hi again all,
I've identified the faucet as a Grohe (how do you pronounce that ??) model 31771 or 31735. Thanks to Casino Knight for identifying the brand. Reed, thanks for the exploded view, but that's a bathroom faucet. Jeff, you're right, the fluted part is a wobble preventer. The nut is an odd size. 11/16 is slightly too big, 5/8 is too small, 17mm is too big, and 16mm is too small. I've been trying with the 11/16 wrench, but it won't budge. I have a few pipe wrenches that are longer than the 11/16 wrench--I'll give them a try. The problem is that I don't know if they are a regular or backwards thread. I don't want to push too hard and either strip or snap the housing. I've flooded it with PB Blaster for the last 2 days with no success. I guess that Grohe is not a popular brand, and nobody has any info on them--I've never heard of the brand before. Has anyone ever seen backwards threaded cartridges before ???
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Ron in NY wrote:

Given that Grohe is a european brand, I'd expect that 17 mm would be the correct size, and it's about twenty thou smaller than 11/16".
I have no reason to expect that it'd be a LH thread.
If a 17 mm deep socket and a cheater handle won't start it, you could always try using the "chisel technique".
Take a hammer and a flat cold chisel (with about 3/8" wide cutting edge) and use them to make an indentation on one of the hex flats, about 1/4 of the way from the end of that flat, on the LEFT side of top center.
After you've made a groove, place the chisel tip in it and tilt the chisel to the right. Strike it sharply and the combination of the shock plus the offset force should start the part unscrewing.
That one's worked for me many times, especially where I didn't have the correct size socket at hand and the part had to be unscrewed "raaht now".
HTH,
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat \'57 EE)
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Trying to remove a stubborn 2 handle Price Pfister faucet I had to resort to the other alternative - using a hacksaw to cut the nut off - of course you pretty much destroy the faucet - but I always hated that particular faucet anway. The other extreme frustration alternative is to use a pair of vice grips to rip the nut off. It's brass after all and a pair of steel vice grips applied along the outside of the nut will deform the metal sufficiently to break the metal if done properly and if sufficient anger and violence have been bottled up. It worked well for me once - again the faucet was useless after that but I didn't care. This trick works even better when the brass is about 40 years old and so corroded it makes the Liberty Bell look like it just came from the foundry.

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You may have found a solution to this but if not, since we have Grohe fixtures throughout our home I've been afforded numerous opportunities to dissect them (I'm doing one right now.) The cartridge that you are trying to remove has right-hand thread. It is seal by an o-ring and I find that this is the culprit when trying to remove the cartridge, rather than corrosion. When it is compressed a substantial force is exerted between the underside of the flange (located about 17 mm below the top of the 17 mm hex nut that you see in your photo. After a half turn of so the o-ring will become uncompressed enough to make further turning possible bay hand.
The most frequent drip/leak cause that I've seen is foreign matter on the seat that then gets imbedded in the washer. The seat seems to survive but the washer is best replaced.
I sometimes resort to removing the entire fixture and put it in a vise to remove the cartridge. It is frequently easier in the long run. You may want to get a 1/2" seat washer before you open the faucet up though. The washer actually measures 0.65" dia x about 0.1" thick. Grohe's part number is 05.291.
I like Grohe fixtures and specified them. I have noticed that their quality is declining. I bought some recently and was not as happy as I was with the ones bought in 1991. I several identical shower setups and some are rusting badly while others are not. It looks like they are skimping of their plating and preparation. Too many visible pin holes and no apparent use of electrophoretic finishes to seal the surface.
Good luck.
B
Ron in NY wrote:

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