Hot Tub - No water pressure...

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wrote:
<snip>

Hardly a "manual" in my world.
I mistakenly assumed the term "manual" meant an official owners manual, provided by the manufacturer of the spa, that details maintenance and care for a specific model.
Perhaps I should have something like, "show me where a MANUFACTURER recommends bleeding air through a union".

DJ
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I believe dustcloud is a lawyer, as he takes every word literally, and dwells on semantics rather than concepts.
And you must remember that dustcloud said that the "MANUAL" in question was his neighbor's, and probably not even for dustbag's spa. Hence, rustcloud's citing the URL does not indicate that the URL was for his spa, your spa, or my spa, but for some cyberspa.
Steve
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On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:14:05 -0700, "SteveB"

My diagnosis and advice for the OP were spot on. Your's were not. Grow up and move on, dimwit.
rusty redcloud
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That will have to be YOUR problem.

Loosening and tightening a union is not a big deal. It's very easy, and MANY manufacturers say that is the way to break an airlock condition. If you want to think it's major surgery, then be my guest.
rusty redcloud
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On 16 Aug 2005 11:31:26 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Precisely how many owners manuals have you actually read?

You seem to have a lot of trouble believing just about anything. Perhaps that is why you can't learn anything.
rusty redcloud
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You seem to be the one educated beyond your capacity.
Should we ONLY believe you? Or what WE do on our OWN spas? Or what is said in our OWN manuals?
I have said, do whatever works for your spa, and I still do. If you think breaking sealed unions apart to bleed air is a good idea, go for it.
I shall continue to use my bleeders.
FWIW, yes, I do <have a lot of trouble believing just about anything.>
I do not believe that believing just about anything (your words) is conducive to learning. Many people are led down a rocky road if they believe "just about anything."
Including those who will mess with the major components of their spas when all they have to do is use the intended simple devices to achieve the same results.
Now, be gone, dustboy.
Plonk
Steve
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wrote:

Well... The original poster has confirmed that I was exactly right about what the problem was and how to easily resolve it. Everything I told him was correct.

Fortunately, Zoner didn't follow your rocky road.

Once again, Steve the Peev uses hyperbole and exaggeration because that's all he has. Major components? Bwhahahahahaha!
rusty redcloud
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If the pump has a strainer basket on its inlet, Make sure the basket is full of water. Losening its lid may be sufficient, or remove the lid and fill it with water.
Bob
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Perhaps the union to some pumps is not easily undone, hence the need for a bleeder. In either case, something has to be loosened to allow air to escape, so either way you are breaking a 'union'. I was willing to do this at the pump, as it has a white plastic nut on it, with little grips that appears to be for your hand to tighten, not a pipe wrench or anything else. It is not a union that is cemented together, where I could envision problems arrising from trying to disconnect it. In the event of a leak, I would personnaly prefer fixing this big nut then a little bleader screw or something... Same thing, different pile.
Also, I am trying to get a hot tub running that has been sitting dry for years. While I am getting it running, I have no filter attached, as it did not come with one. It seems the filter is the first place you would look for a bleeder valve. Now that I know my pump is running, and my heater works, I am going to drain it and buy a filter, perhaps looking for a bleeder as a feature!
For the comments about crappy hot tubs, sure, mine is crappy, if thats what you call it. I now have jet action, nice hot water, and decent conformt. Its a glorified bucket of water with a pump. With a little work, I'm sure it will be good as new. Perhaps for 5 - 10k more I could get a new tub with a bleeder valve, but I think I'll wait till I retire for that. For now, thats alot of beer money for sitting in the tub - and yeah, I get a girl in my 6-man hot tub. :)
So, I got my tub running, and we've learned that different hot tubs operate, and bleed slightly different, but the concepts are pretty well the same.
Thanks again, and wish we could all steam off with a cold one in the tubs.... Cheers...
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"Perhaps the union to some pumps is not easily undone, hence the need for a bleeder. In either case, something has to be loosened to allow air to escape, so either way you are breaking a 'union'."
No, because a union and a plug are two different things.
"It is not a union that is cemented together, where I could envision problems arrising from trying to disconnect it. "
A union is never cemented together, as the whole purpose of the union is so that it can be disconnected.
"In the event of a leak, I would personnaly prefer fixing this big nut then a little bleader screw or something... Same thing, different pile. "
They aren't the same thing. A plug you can put tape or pipe dope on to help seal. A union, you cannot. Also a plug is easy to get a wrench on and tighten and in my experience, is far less likely to be a source of a leak.
" While I am getting it running, I have no filter attached, as it did not come with one. It seems the filter is the first place you would look for a bleeder valve."
Now I'm confused. The spas I have seen have filters which are part of the spa, not a seperate attachement, unless they are built in ones. Mine has a filter housing molded right into the shell, with a lid on top.
"For the comments about crappy hot tubs, sure, mine is crappy, if thats
what you call it. I now have jet action, nice hot water, and decent conformt. Its a glorified bucket of water with a pump. With a little work, I'm sure it will be good as new. Perhaps for 5 - 10k more I could
get a new tub with a bleeder valve, "
I doubt cost has anything to do with it. My spa is a NEMCO, just a basic spa, nothing fancy. Had it for 17+ years or so. I've never had to bleed it in any way. And during that time, not only have I drained it every few months to change the water, I've also moved it from one location to another, had it sitting on it's side for a couple months, while I sealed the patio, made repairs, etc. Each time, all I did was fill it and it fired right up, except once. Then it apparently did have an air lock problem, but just turning it on and off a couple times got it going.
I don't doubt that some spas could become air locked, as yours did or that it might take breaking a connection or opening a plug to get the air out. I just disagree that all spas require this or that you have to do it routinely every time the spa is filled.
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Look where the water goes down from the spa. On a lot of spas there are two cylindrical holes that you drop filter cartridges into and screw them in.

I don't think you got a crappy one. They're all the same. Some hot water, some bubbles, some jets.

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As for the filter thing, maybe I am wrong...
The last time this was running, the owner had a great big sand filter attached to it (the kind for big swimming pools). This was an ugly thing, so I ditched it, as it had some broken parts on it too. In its place I just temperarily put a PVC pipe.
On the corner of the tub, there is a full height 'tube' were the water goes down through the basket. I can get my hand in the inside water hole to pull the basket out, but was assuming this was its only purpose. Underneath the basket, is this were common filters are?
I was just guessing that I needed a pressure filter to replace the big sand one this guy used. Perhaps I just need to return the original filter system to normal.
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"On the corner of the tub, there is a full height 'tube' were the water
goes down through the basket. I can get my hand in the inside water hole to pull the basket out, but was assuming this was its only purpose. Underneath the basket, is this were common filters are?
I was just guessing that I needed a pressure filter to replace the big sand one this guy used. Perhaps I just need to return the original filter system to normal. "
Sounds like somebody did a home mod on this spa.
On my spa, there is a compartment in one corner. It's basicly a deep well with a pipe connected to the pump suction coming straight up the middle for most of the height of the well Water enters the top of the filter well through a port on the side of the spa at the water surface, skimming it off. The filter slides on over the suction pipe and the pump then pulls water through it.
I would go to the manufacturer's website, if they are still in business, and see what info you can find. Also, the spa shops online may have info on the correct filter if you know the model you have. Failing that, taking some pics, measurements, and going to a spa shop may work.
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wrote:

I hope you didn't run it for more than a couple of seconds at a time! Those pumps are plastic, and don't last very long if you run them dry. They depend on the water flowing through them for cooling and lubrication.
The reason you have no water coming out is because you didn't bleed the air out of the pipes. After filling the tub, and before starting the motor, you should loosen several fittings, such as the ones where the plumbing connects to the pump, and let some water run out.
rusty redcloud
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Duane - Thanks, if all else fails I will pull the pump out and take a look. Can I run this for a second or so by itself to make sure everything is turning ok?
Rusty - Thanks. I had not considered bleeding the system. I assumed since all the jets are under water, and the return path is under water, and there is no pipes above the water level, that air would be pushed out by gravity. Is this not true?
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wrote:

If you filled the pump with water it should self prime. Does it pump out the water you put in the pump?
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Sometimes, there is an air bubble in the pump, and the pump cannot pump air. I guess they are different than pool pumps, because my pool can suck air, and it still catches prime and kicks off. Not so with the spa. I have had to do the bleeder thing after multiple on/off attempts to get it to catch prime.
The answer is yes, no, definitely, and maybe.
Steve
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On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 12:27:26 -0700, "SteveB"

If you fill the pump basket with water and the pump doesn't prime you have a plumbing problem or a bad pump.
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I got two Catalina spas. I can drain them, fill them back up, and they won't catch prime SOMETIMES. The water is over the top of the filter intake by about a foot.
Yours probably works different.
But it is no problem to turn them on and off a few times, and then if that doesn't work, just crack the bleed valve.
Steve
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wrote:

Not true. If you haven't bled the pipes, then the chance that I gave you the correct answer rises to about 99%!!!
You have an airlock, and no water will get to the pump until the plumbing is bled. It takes only a few seconds to do. Just loosen the connectors one at a time until you hear a faint hiss and some water comes out. Then tighten it back up. Do this at a few points if possible.
rusty redcloud
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