Hot Tub - No water pressure...

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Did your pump ever fail to prime because you didn't vent the filter. If you did forget to bleed the air from that filter housing the air would all be gone in a minute or two anyway.
We were talking about the plumbing, not the filter anyway. A properly designed pool or spa will not trap air in the pipes. These skid pack spas do it because they have to jam all the plumbing under the housing. You are also wasting a lot of power moving water through all those elbows.
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 22:42:58 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

OK I was wrong about the Catalina spa. You do need to bleed the air traps. The flaw is in putting air traps in there in the first place but if this the way they make skid pack spas that is what you have to do. The rule in proper pool/spa plumbing is the suction lines and pressure lines always slope in the same direction so they drain and fill without the need of bleeding.
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I was wrong, too, and am going to stop filling the dog's bowl from that line. ;-)
Steve
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wrote:

Yes
No, you do not need any added prssure to get enough water in the lines to replace air. Just create a vent for the air to escape

Because it works very well and the "risk" of creating a problem" is in your head.

Sounds like you don't know how to design anything, or else you bought a crap spa. Please remind me not to let you wind my watch. You sound terribly inept.

Mine are about 3 "

I generally don't put a wrench on them. They have a soft gasket in them, so hand tightening seals them easily, and I can loosen them by hand as well.

As said from the start, it takes less than a minute to crack a couple of those unions and then retighten them. It takes more energy to argue against it, then it does to simply do it. You apparently like to make mountains out of molehills. Go take a long soak and see if you feel better.
rusty redcloud
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Hey, you're the one advocating breaking apart 3" unions instead of using the tiny little bleeders. Oh, I forgot. Yours doesn't have bleeders.
Well, next time buy a good brand name spa. They have them.
Steve
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"If you are commissioning a spa, you already have the access panel off. I have no idea what "pump" you are plugging in. "
I don't know what you mean by the term commissioning, as opposed to draining the water and refilling it, which is required every few months. From the thread, it seemed like some people are claiming that you need to bleed air from the system every time the spa is drained. I didn't say anything about plugging in a pump. What I said was you need to remove a plug in a pump to bleed it, as pumps usually have drain plugs and that would seem to be one place you could bleed it. You could also open unions as you suggested, but I think this is poor practice as unions were not meant to be repeatidly made and broken. That is likely to make them more prone to leaking.
"You are correct it isn't rocket science. So why are you trying to make it sound as if it is? "
I'm not saying it's rocket science. I'm saying that first, in the spa's I've owned, it's never been necessary. Nor has it ever been mentioned in the owner's manual. Does your owner's manual say it's required? If it does, what brand spa do you have?
And second, I don;t have to pull any access covers to drain and change the water in my spa, so it is extra work for no purpose. Third, there are certainly spa owners who will feel uncomfortable undoing unions to bleed the system. There are likely many who don;t even know what a union is and would have to have a service call. And even with the power off, depending on what you try to open to bleed the system and where water may go, it does run some risk of water going where it shouldn't, like into the power pack.
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On 16 Aug 2005 06:32:37 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Very standard service term for preparing something for use.

Please try and folow the thread. The original poster's situation was he had a pump that was running and nothing was coming out. That is almost, but not absolutely always due to an air lock. It would be the first thing to eliminate regardless. Wise man say, "When you hear hoofbeats, look for horses before you look for zebras".
He didn't report any bad noises or any other symptoms. Just no flow. The original poster also said he just finished rewiring the spa, which means he has some idea of how to do things, and would probaly have no trouble at all doing what I advised. If you have a similar situation, and don't feel comfortable working on the tub yourself, then I would advise you to call a professional.
rusty redcloud
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Look, moron.
(read on only if you are one of the people posting moronic ideas on this thread)
Every spa is different.
What works on that spa is the right thing to do.
Certain things are unadvisable ...... (running the pump while dry; breaking unions unnecessarily when you have bleeders; breaking unions unnecessarily because you don't know what a bleeder is or where it's at; buying a cheap spa that doesn't have bleeders; putting Dawn in your spa and turning it on; doing idiotic things that will get you hurt or killed; doing idiotic things that will hurt or kill your spa)
There's a hundred ways to cook a poodle, but it all tastes like chicken. There's different ways to get a spa to make bubbles. Breaking unions instead of using bleeders is like digging up a sewer pipe to unstop a leak. There's a simpler way to do it.
Steve
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 08:36:55 -0700, "SteveB"

Like I said, you seem to enjoy being Hyperbolic, shrill, and making mountains out of molehills. Go soak your head - you truly need it.
Meanwhile, if the original poster follows my advice, his problem will be easily solved. Now go back to sleep, chucklehead.
rusty redcloud
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FYI - Loosening the union to the pump fixed the problem very easily. I could loosen and tighten the connection by hand. Note that this tub has been sitting for 3 or so years dry, so I am not suprised about this. Also, it is not the newest cadillac of hot tubs.
However, my neighbor has a newer, and quite expensive hot tub, and his owners manual says to loosen this union in this event. He also noted that he has never had to do it, and has drained his tub many times. But, it would seem this is normal.
Thanks again...
PS - After I got the pump going, my breaker tripped... If you have advice on this, see thread: http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.home.repair/browse_frm/thread/fd732aa327367083/2775445350528ac8?hl=en#2775445350528ac8
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wrote:

You're welcome. Another crisis AVERTED!!!
rusty redcloud

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wrote:

And redcloud felt compelled to answer:

I rest my case.
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:44:22 -0700, "SteveB"

You lost your "case" when you woke up this morning. The original poster has now posted the results. He said that the problem was as I said, and loosening the unions was easy and effective. He further says that his neighbor has a hot tub manual for another tub that recommends bleeding by loosening the unions.
You were wrong on every count.
So, Stevie, GFY!
rusty redcloud
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Well, then, that makes it official. The neighbor has a manual for ANOTHER tub. So, I guess that if I want to fix my Ford, I just go borrow my neighbor's Chevy manual. Yup, that clinches it.
Thank you soooooo much for your insight and input on this matter. I now know how to work on my two spas, whereas before I was ignorant of the proper procedure.
So, according to your advice, I am off to get a Chevy manual to work on my Catalina spa. Or, I will ask my neighbor if he has a Sundance spa manual or a manual for a Peterbilt.
Thanks, dustcloud
Steve
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wrote:

Since you are having such difficulty, and are unable to follow a conversation, I suggest that you look in the yellow pages for help. You need it.
Catalina Spa? Bwhahahahahaha! Who works on your Yugo for you? Bwhahahahahahahahahaha!
rusty redcloud
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Had 'Cal-Spa' delivered and filled it up. Followed the manual instructions to START but no water flow. Got ERR msg on panel. Called the 800 Customer Service # and the tech there said to undo the union..gurgle etc Then restart. That worked. A friend bought a used 1 yr old spa (different brand) this Summer and had the same problem on startup, Same procedure worked. Some arent made with bleeders and sadly, you weren't there to give sage advice when the units were bought
R
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"Please try and folow the thread. "
I can follow the thread perfectly well, but can you? I have no problem with thinking a particular spa might have an air lock problem. What I don't buy is your assertion that it's required that you bleed all spas every time you fill them. I asked what kind of spa you have and if THE OWNERS MANUAL SAYS YOU NEED TO DO THIS??? I've never seen it in an owner's manual.
And I find it hard to believe that it's that hard to design a spa so that it will self prime and not air lock. Both spas that I have had have worked this way. I also have a hard time believing a spa manufacturer would tell anyone that it's necessary to go inside and loosen unions when filling a spa. At the least, if bleeding is required, they could provide a bleed fitting, as SteveB has pointed out. Maybe it;s you who have the crappy spa!
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On 16 Aug 2005 11:31:26 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

My CalSpa manual calls for opening the bleed fittings. In the 12 years I've owned it, I have always had to bleed it to get the pump to pull water after refilling. IMO, if you don't have to bleed it, it probably did not get drained completely in the first place. I have two bleed fittings, one near the pump, one on top of the filter lid.

Maybe RCloud can provide us with a spa manual that does indeed tell the owner he must bleed the system by opening a union, but I doubt he can...

That's kinda like dropping the oil pan to change oil in a car ain't it? Again, IMO, it seems pretty dumb to open the plumbing via a union, even though it may work.
RCloud may have an easy time of it, as I do if/when I *need* to open a union for component repair/replacement, but to suggest it as an accepted way of doing it, to a new spa owner, isn't neccessarily the best advice, but probably worth what it cost the OP.
DJ
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Thank you, DJ.
Steve
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Here ya go:
http://www.spadepot.com/spacyclopedia/spafaqem.htm#em14
I'm sure that if you want to waste the time you can find many more saying the same thing.
rusty redcloud
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