Here we go again, toilet flange dilemma

House was built in 2005 and it seems the flooring people (or the plumbers) put the flanges on TOP of the flooring (tile and wood). First one I ended up having a plumber cut away the wood flooring and reinstall the flange so it was flush with the flooring. Seals perfectly with normal wax ring, neve r had a problem again.
Now another toilet looked like the wax ring gave way. I pulled up the toil et some leakage on the tile floor and of course the flange was installed on TOP of the tile ! ! For fun I tried the no-seep #10 wax ring, and trying to press it down I can see the bottom of the toilet is contacting the flan ge and the toilet itself barely hits the floor. I am worried I'd get a rock ering effect and the ring would give away over time. So I pulled it up and sure enough the wax ring and the black seal part had separated.
So my first question (since I noticed the old ring had a ton of wax and the re didn't seem to be a black seal part on it), is there some other wax ring that might have worked? Heck it lasted for 10 years.
Or should I just suck it up and pay the plumber to lower the flange? This o ne is more nasty because it is on the second floor and they will have to op en up the dinning room ceiling.
Pictures here:
http://ibin.co/2T0f8UyUyDO8 http://ibin.co/2T0fPfddarOu http://ibin.co/2T0fc9wHgOWj
Thanks.
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On Sunday, January 10, 2016 at 1:45:31 PM UTC-6, noname wrote:

) put the flanges on TOP of the flooring (tile and wood). First one I ende d up having a plumber cut away the wood flooring and reinstall the flange s o it was flush with the flooring. Seals perfectly with normal wax ring, ne ver had a problem again.

ilet some leakage on the tile floor and of course the flange was installed on TOP of the tile ! ! For fun I tried the no-seep #10 wax ring, and tryi ng to press it down I can see the bottom of the toilet is contacting the fl ange and the toilet itself barely hits the floor. I am worried I'd get a ro ckering effect and the ring would give away over time. So I pulled it up a nd sure enough the wax ring and the black seal part had separated.

here didn't seem to be a black seal part on it), is there some other wax ri ng that might have worked? Heck it lasted for 10 years.

one is more nasty because it is on the second floor and they will have to open up the dinning room ceiling.

http://tinyurl.com/hkzrp2o
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On 1/10/2016 2:45 PM, noname wrote:

I'm not sure what the answer is, but the existing setup worked for 10 years. What did they do 10 years ago that you cannot do now? If you can duplicate it you will save a lot of money.
Does it sit solid with no seal? If so, can you buy a thinner one or shave a wax seal?
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You could get a piece of 1/4" treated plywood, cut it to fit the base of the toilet. Then cut a hole in it to fit around the flange. Align it so it's exactly where he toilet will sit, put a few nails or screws into it to attach it to the floor. Then mount the toilet in the usual manner, on top of this plywood.
You're toilet will be 1/4" higher, and you'll see the edge of the plywood around the base of it, but it will make a good seal and save a lot of expense. Some white caulk should hide the plywood edge pretty well too.
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On Sun, 10 Jan 2016 14:41:03 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@unlisted.moc wrote:

Use a piece of plexiglass or other plastic as a slightly larger than toilet base flange (cut to clear the pipe flange) and bolt the toilet down to the flange mount points with a wax seal. Prime and paint plastic if the color is not suitable.
--
Mr.E

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There is another solution. Throw the toilet away. Build a wooden box over the flange and attach it to the floor and wall. Cut a circle in the top of the wooden box, and put a traffic cone in that hole, upside down. Be sure to put the pointed end of the traffic cone into the flange hole. Mount a toilet seat if you desire one, over the base of the cone.
You now have a toilet. To flush, just pour a bucket of water into the cone, or connect a longer hose to your portable shower head and spray it down the cone.
ENJOY !!!!
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On Sunday, January 10, 2016 at 2:45:31 PM UTC-5, noname wrote:

) put the flanges on TOP of the flooring (tile and wood). First one I ende d up having a plumber cut away the wood flooring and reinstall the flange s o it was flush with the flooring. Seals perfectly with normal wax ring, ne ver had a problem again.

ilet some leakage on the tile floor and of course the flange was installed on TOP of the tile ! ! For fun I tried the no-seep #10 wax ring, and tryi ng to press it down I can see the bottom of the toilet is contacting the fl ange and the toilet itself barely hits the floor. I am worried I'd get a ro ckering effect and the ring would give away over time. So I pulled it up a nd sure enough the wax ring and the black seal part had separated.

here didn't seem to be a black seal part on it), is there some other wax ri ng that might have worked? Heck it lasted for 10 years.

one is more nasty because it is on the second floor and they will have to open up the dinning room ceiling.

What was there before? If it was a standard profile wax seal, why not just use one of those again?
I found this in another forum:
"You can estimate which height ring is needed and if a flange is a good ide a or not by placing a straight edge along the base of the inverted toilet and measuring from the straight edge to the ceiling of the toilet base. Adjust this measurement by how high or low the floor flange surface is from finished fl oor. The wax ring should be compressed around 1/2 to 3/4 it's initial height onc e installed. If it will compress less, you need a taller ring. If it will com press more, consider getting one with a flange to limit wax extrusion into the drainage path."
Just FYI...I tried a wax free seal from Home Depot on a flange that is leve l with the tile. I could not get the toilet to touch the floor and ended up going back to a wax seal.
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On Sun, 10 Jan 2016 12:52:48 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

Just as bad as a flange that is too high, is one that's too low. I knew a flooring guy who would install underlayment and new flooring in a bathroom. Then the flange was sometimes as much as a half inch too low. The solution was to install TWO wax rings stacked on top of each other. It did work! Of course if the first wax ring had that built in plastic piece, the top one had to be a PLAIN wax ring ONLY.
I've never used the wax-free types. They may work well on a flange that's perfectly level with the floor, but if it's not, you might end of cracking your toilet by having to over tighten the bolts. Wax rings are one of those things that cant be improved. They have worked well for many years. But like everything else, there's always someone who wants to get into your wallet to sell you something that is supposedly "new and improved". (Most of them are probably employed by Microsoft too :).
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The closet flange is supposed to be on top of the finished floor. Are you saying that yours is sticking up beyond that ? < pics aren't very clear to me > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closet_flange
John T.
--- ---
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On Sun, 10 Jan 2016 17:10:09 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.com wrote:

The old cast iron flanges did sit in top, but they were thin and the linoleum made them almost level. These plastic ones are much thicker. On top of that, it seems some toilets do not allow for a thick flange. Poor toilet design.... The OP might consider a new toilet as an alternative "fix" for this. But it would have to be measured to know for sure if it will work. The cheapest method is still to build up the toilet with plywood or another material.
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In typed:

Maybe one of these would work: http://www.oatey.com/doc/Toilet_Base_Plate.pdf
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On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 3:57:40 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:

For some reason I get the feeling that those plates make a lot of sense in theory, but in real life, they never seem to really work out.
By that I mean, round nose or straight, they will always look like an add-on, an attempt to fix a problem, something that just doesn't belong. They may solve the actual problem, but they won't just blend in.
I could be wrong, just a feeling.
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On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 6:03:46 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:

n theory, but

-on, an attempt

actual problem,

...something you might be happy with in your cabin, but not your home. ? ?ᇂﮌᇂ)
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On 1/11/2016 7:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

If that's your biggest problem, you lead a charmed life.
Meanwhile in middle America we have 20% plus unemployment, winter weather, high heating bills, and expensive health care, and rampant inflation.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
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In typed:

I think you are right about that. They are one option, but they are not perfect.
I had one situation where I needed to raise a toilet a small amount for essentially the same situation that the OP had -- an old house, a cast iron flange that was too high, and I was replacing the toilet. It is not an owner-occupied property, more like a rental. I couldn't find the oval version of the toilet base plate anywhere so I bought the square version at Lowes -- that's all they had. They are fairly thin (maybe 1/8 inch or so) and the specs do not say how thick they are. I can't remember for sure, but I think I put two together (one on top of the other) and they have a notching system so they line up correctly with each other. They do stick out past the toilet perimeter so they are not cut to the exact shape of the toilet base, and it does not seem very likely that cutting them to match the exact toilet perimeter would work. In a way, they are made to look like a base or "pedestal"(?) that the toilet sits on.
I think they would look okay enough, and they solved what I needed -- which was basiclly to pass a third party inspection. The problem that I had was that the square/rectangular one is too short in length for the toilet that I have. So, it looks a little funky and I had to caulk around the front of the toilet to make it look okay. If I could have found the oval one, that would have been fine and I think it would have looked okay even for a homeowner in an owner-occupied property.
I wasn't in the mood to try cutting a pattern in 1/4 inch plywood to make a custom fit base and then caulk around that perimeter, so I went with one of these. Admittedly, it was sort of a hack job on my part, but it solved what I needed. If I had the oval model -- assuming that it would have fit correctly to make an oval base for the toilet to sit on, I think it would have looked good. They don't look bad in real life, except for the wrong model fit issue that I had.
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