Recently, when I had a new circuit breaker box installed, the electrician installed a GFCI outlet right outside of the breaker box. It looks to me as if the wiring from this outlet then goes back into the box. Is this so the entire house will be protected by this one GFCI outlet?
And if this is the case, will my whole house shut down if the outlet is tripped?
One whole circuit, not the whole house. Maybe the utility room, or the outdoor outlets, or...
Trip it with the test button and see what happens.
Best regards, Bob
electrician
i shudder to think it, but if it actually does go back in the box, maybe the 'electrician' did indeed put more than one circuit on it...
barring opening the panel, see if tripping the gfi requires you to turn off two or more breakers to achieve the same results.
randy
Sounds like he saved a trip to the store by installing a GFCI outlet at the breaker panel and connecting the rest of the circuit to this instead of installing a GFCI breaker. No big deal, having an extra outlet at your breaker panel may come in handy one day. This probably feeds outside circuits or a bathroom. Wire a neon indicator lamp into a plug and plug it into the outlet. This will give you the status of the circuit at a glance.
I have not heard of "entire house protection," but then again I'm only an electrician wanna-be. If there is a "test" button on the GFCI you can find out. Whenever I install a new circuit (from the main or sub panel) I install one GFCI for each circuit that requires protection.
You didn't say where your new panel is located. I'm guessing that it is either in an unfinished basement or a garage in which case all receptacles need GFI protection. The electrician may have added a convenience outlet close to the panel and also used it to provide GFI protection as required under current code.
Your whole house will not shut down when it is tripped, but I suggest that you do push the test button to determine exactly what it is protecting.
What I would like to know is; Why didn't you just ask the electrician who did the work?
John Grabowski
guessing that it is
all receptacles
convenience outlet
protection as required
but I suggest that
is protecting.
electrician who
installed, the electrician
box. It looks to me
box. Is this so
if the outlet is
A better question: What kind of electrician installs something without telling the owner or labelling it?
electrician
you are right. but he says it goes back into the panel and that shouldnt be. the load side of the gfci should feed what its feeding without going back into the panel.
randy
Why not? I can't think of any rules against it. It makes a very neat installation, and gives you an extra convenience outlet and keeps the GFCI right there near the panel.
I just installed the same thing at my garage subpanel, and the electrical inspector who was riding my ass and nitpicking everything else didn't have a problem with it.
Bob
Yeah, well....professionals don't normally talk to mere homeowners.
Bob
They do if they are getting paid by that homeowner, and the homeowner doesn't get in the way too much during the job.
You're mistaking Internet a-holes for professionals. (And some of them might actually act professionally in real life and asinine only when they are online.) I haven't seen many jerks in a.h.r., but it would be disappointing if there weren't a few. ;-)
Bob
A lot of inspectors use this
312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices. Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall not be used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices, unless adequate space for this purpose is provided.They make the installer prove the panel manufacturer provided the necessary space.
im not saying you shouldnt use the gfci outlet there and use it in lieu of a gfci breaker, but you're basically running the wire into the panel just to pass it back out the panel again to connect it to the gfi. to me it makes more sense just to run the wire straight to the load side of the gfi outlet instead of passing it through the panel first. but i guess it doesnt matter much.
randy
Any appeals board would hand them their ass. Unless the wiring gutter is filled to more then forty percent of it's cross sectional area there is nothing wrong with routing the wires back through the panel unless the panel is for emergency power and the circuit is not emergency powered.
-- Tom H
You are not a builder are you?
While you were waiting for an appeals board to GET OFF THEIR OWN ASS your houses would sit with yellow/red tags on them. I will not defend the actions of some inspectors, in fact I agree with you on this issue but you have heard the analogy about arguing with an inspector being like mud wrestling with a pig. In the real world folks usually just say "what do you want" and do it. My wife is a builder and she always gets mad at me when I say she should fight some of the dumb things folks do here. It costs her about $600 a day for a house that misses schedule. That assumes she has another way to keep the trades busy and she doesn't have any materials or concete issues. It can cost a LOT more.
You are correct I'm not a builder but if the cost of the additional work goes high enough even a lowly electrician like me has to appeal. I've done it three times in thirty five years in the craft. I won all three.
Imagine your wife has a development of 100 homes and the electrical inspector orders her to expose the footer reinforcing steel for use as a grounding electrode. The appeal would cost less that the thousands of dollars that work would cost. The NFPA published a formal interpretation that rebar that is not available at the time the service is installed is not available for code purposes.
How about the apartment house with over two hundred panels were the inspector tried to apply the very section were talking about against my employer when the panel cabinets were used as raceways for the heat pump branch circuits. My employer won that appeal as well.
What I think we are both saying is that you have to do the cost benefit calculation on any appeal. If the cost of the change is less than the cost of the appeal you make the change but if your smart you get the order in writing so that it can be used against the inspector later if you have to get down and dirty. States that operate state wide appeals processes are eliminating these problems because the consequence of too many successful appeals is the decertification of the county enforcement authority and a state take over of enforcement.
-- Tom
Bad example, that is part of the footer inspection. If they poured without an OK they SHOULD be cutting some concrete.
The problem is how many foreign conductors in a panel is "too many"? If you start putting "opinion" in you will start getting away from "law". That is why AHJs get to sound like pricks. They hire folks at lousy salaries, expect them to do 25-30 inspections a day scattered across a county. These guys need strict rules to do their job.
Yeah that's gonna happen. I WAS a state inspector for 8 years. They terminated the whole program (all EIGHT of us!) . Just exactly how do you think the state is going to "take over" a building department with 100 people that are overworked? There is NO real consequence to losing an appeal. If the state did want to stop a rogue building department all they could do is take them to court.
Whats all the confusion about ? My guess would be that the GFCI was added to to conform to the code , assuming the panel is located in an unfinished basement or garage (Op never told us where the panel is). I would bet that a feed was taken from the panel to feed the GFCI. He may have used the load side to protect a bathroom or out side outlet no big deal.
Bill
Tom- I'm curious as to why a heat pump branch circuit would even pass through an apartment's panel? Could you be more specific?
Probably goes from the breaker to the GFCI back inside the panel then out of the panel with out connecting to anything inside the panel. Lets hope
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.