Fire Departments Suck on ladders.

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So a guy gets stuck in a tree while chasing his parrot and can't get down. No problem. The fire department have ladders on all their fire trucks, right?
Evidently not. They had to try police helicopters and then a coast guard helicopter to get him down.
Where the hell are the ladders?
Somebody needs to check this out and hurry before we actually need a ladder to save a life.
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The devil is in the details, Deke. The ground was too wet to use a ladder, and the guy was high in a tree that wasn't otherwise easily accessible.
Luke
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The bizarre thing about this fiasco is the total cost of the rescue: $10,000. The guy risked his own life, and the lives of the rescuers, trying to save a parrot that cost him $2000. He used some seriously poor judgment.
The taxpayers should be loading their shotguns right about now...
Luke
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People have a whole different set of judgments when it comes to their pets. Some of the whacko-s will take more care of Fluffy than their kids. Some even think the pets are their kids. Agree, they should send him the bill for the rescue. Same with mountain climbers that put themselves at risk.
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wrote:

That's the way they figure it, but it might be a lot less. The real costs are the costs of the gasoline it burns and a proportional charge of the cost of overhauling the engine and other repairs.
But they normally, I believe, quote costs including a proportional cost of the crew's time, and the initional cost and interst on the price of the helicopter, and the costs of running the whole department. Must of these are fixed costs that don't actually go up when they do a specific thing.

That's for sure. Lately there has been a change in rescue rules, at the Louisiana or federal level, that means pets will be rescued to if possible. Because of Katrina, when, even though they could have taken many of the pets just by doing so, they had a policy against it.
Another example is an article on tv news about concern for the pets of aliens being deported, especially I guess the ones left at home when no one comes back.
And of course the enormous amounts spent on medical care for pets. There was an episode of According to Jim where spent 1000 to fix up a hamster, that sell for 10 dollars and barely have a personality (or even a hamsterality), This was a comedy, but I think it could happen.
It might well be a measure of prosperity that people are willing to do all this. Used to be, I think, most dogs were working dogs, shepherds, etc., although maybe I'm wrong about that.

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wrote:

You're ignoring the missed opportunity costs. You seem to think these guys and choppers are sitting around all the time. Whatever else they had to do at that time still has to be done. For that reason, crew costs are completely reasonable to include.

Hmm... "initional cost and interst"? What language is that? No, the cost of running the whole department is not included in those estimates. The Coast Guard isn't even organized into departments. $10K certainly doesn't pay the cost of the entire PD or FD for that length of time.
Luke
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On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:52:35 -0400, Luke Howett Fitzhugh

I may not have written a treatise on the subject, but I don't think that at all.
However if they failed to save someone in more danger at the time, that would have been a scandal and not just an expense.

If they have to work overtime that week, yes. But if they worked 37 hours and because of the guy in the tree, they have to be in the air 40 hours, then it wouldn't cost more. I don't consider being in the air or doing other mandatory chores 37 hours in a week to be "sitting around all the time".
If they really spend every minute of their time in the air doing rescues etc. or on their way to do one, they should plan for busy days and buy another helicopter and hire another crew.
Although I wouldn't mind billing the guy something, but you can't make it so much that people will fall out of trees rather than call rescue.
We don't charge for the fire department to come, even though almost all fires are started by someone's, usually a resident's, stupid mistake. I think this was Benjamin Franklin's idea, and before him, there were profit-making fire departments, and they would come, and they would negotiate with the owner about how much he would pay them to put out the fire, while his building was burning down. Franklin didn't like this system.
(I found out that in NYS, if you hit those very big yellow or orange barrels at the fork at expresway exit ramps, they charge you for each barrel you damage and the sand inside. It was about 200 or 300 dollars each 25 years ago! That seems like a lot of money. I had assumed they were like party favors for bad drivers.

Again, I was trying to be brief, something readers here know comes as a challenge to me. I never said the whole PD, and even if the Coast Guard doesn't have departments, it has some subdivision, if only for accounting, that either includes helicopter operations, or rescue operations, or something like that. I don't think 10 thouasand will pay for the whole PD for that time, and what I meant was that if you take the annual budget, divide by the hours in the year and multiply by the hours it takes to do the rescue (3?),
then divide by the number of employees in the department or the number that deal with the public, and multiply by the number that were involved in the rescue, that might be how they calculate the cost.

Anyhow, I'm just going to think about Oren's approval of hamsterality now.
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I don't know, there is sorta Darwinian logic about letting them take a header doncha think?

On the other hand, they do often charge for non-fire emergencies. Chemical spills come to mind. Some other kinds of rescues.
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wrote:

If there was another emergency, after they had left their base, it would not be a scandal (on their part), but a costly inconvenience to bring in another resource. That is both and expense and a hazard to life.

Regardless of the overtime, there is training that might not be completed on time, increasing the risk to life. We've already discussed the possibility that another emergency might occur while they are needlessly occupied. Any time that a rescue team is tied-up unnecessarily, there is a tangible cost to the community.

I think this case was blatant enough for a person of average intelligence to see that it is not among the situations that normally occur. This is a person with very poor judgment, but enough money to buy $2000 parrots. He can pay for his foolishness.

There are levels of stupidity. A person of average intelligence can easily, accidentally cause a fire. A person of average intelligence is extremely unlikely to do what this guy did.

Yeah, you should definitely stick with the one thing that you did OK with.
Luke
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Thanks.
Recorded by Marvin and the Chipmunks:
"Whoa, whoa, wover and over, I tried to prove my love to you. Over and over, what more can I do? Oh, over and over and over, my friends say I'm a fool. But oh, oh, over and o'o'over, I'll be a fool for you.
'cause you've got, hamsterality, Walk, hamsterality Talk, hamsterality Charm and hamsterality Love and hamsterality
And yes youve got a great big heart So over and over, oh, Ill be a fool to you Now over and over, what more can I do ?
Over and over, I said that I loved you Over and over, honey now its the truth Over and over, they still say Im a fool But oh, oh, over and o'o'over, Ill be a fool for you
(Also recorded by Lloyd Price)
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Did you see the guy during the interview talking about potty training the bird? He looked like a Moonie on 'shrooms.
Steve
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wrote:

(Good luck and prayers tomorrow with the procedure)
-- Oren
"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes."
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Thanks. Due to the multi-tentacled insurance company, I found out yesterday that I did not send them the notification in time, and I am therefore bound to their policy for thirty more days, moving my procedure (the one I should have had last July) to May 3rd. I have made some calls to some old friends here in Las Vegas. (It's nice when you live somewhere for fifty years) They may be able to have the insurance company do an "annulment". And that would allow me to have the procedure immediately. I have actually had to go to the federal level of Medicare coverage and Insurance Regulations.
In the meantime, my meds dosages have been increase from 2x to 8x normal dosages, and I am barred from going to my Utah cabin until at least the end of May. I take nitro, and am afraid of falling off a ladder and going boom.
So, I'll just sit back for thirty days and try not to do what they want me to do .................... die in the meantime and go away because of their incompetence and ass dragging.
Sheesh, talk about fire department ladders sucking.
Thanks for the good wishes.
Steve
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No offense but if that's the criteria then does that mean we should be pointing our shotguns at all the lazy people on welfare or those with fake disability claims?
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Only pointing? Why not make a bounty on them? Anyone bringing in proof (such as the videos investigators take) should be able to claim a reward. There are rewards for information leading to arrest and conviction in all sorts of crimes. Why not this?
(I know why, but this is just for the sake of discussion.)
Steve
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Keep in mind, I never said whether or not I want to point my guns at them, just curious why this is so bad but the true slackers and drags on society aren't.
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I definitely would not point guns at them. Cameras are a different thing. And rewards for those who point them.
Steve
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How high up? Last I looked the NFPA standard was only about two stories worth. Even with the trucks, a lot depends on the placement. Was it close enough to the drive way to get to? Was the ground too soft to get the truck there? Was there enough room between the tree and other obstructions to maneuve the ladder on the truck? Location is everything. For example, the City-County Building in Ft. Wayne, IN was built in such a manner that the ladder trucks couldn't get too close to it. Even with the 70 foot ladder, the best they could do was the third floor. Anyone care to guess where the FWFD offices were located??
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wrote:

I don't understand. I can go down to the store and buy a 60 foot ladder for less than $200. I'd expect the fire department to have ladders that are at least twice as long and maybe 3 times.
Soil too soft? So grab some pads from the station and make a path. And get a tow truck and pull it out later. That takes all of 10 minutes to get one of those vultures out to help you.
Tree in the way? Chain saw.....
Incompetence seems to be rampant.
In my state, every time a fire fighter breaks a fingernail, all the firefighters abandon their designated posts and attend his visit to the doctor. It is completely out of hand and something needs to be done.
My other pet peeve is swat teams. They spend months in training to determine how long it takes high school kids to lay there and bleed to death from gun shot wounds, then add 4 hours to that and then they cowardly ease their way into the building.
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