Fence responsibilty?

[tnom]

This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool. You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length, are you required to chip in with the cost?

1. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have to have your approval before he puts it on the property line, otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

[Art Begun]

If the agreement was not recorded then you have no obligation under it. Fences normally have to be set back from property lines. If he is on your line then the survey should have shown it and the lawyer doing the closing and/or title company should have brought it to your attention. Look at the survey and see what it says. If it says the fence is on the line call up the lawyer and ask him what should be done about it. Since he failed to bring it to your attention he may have committed mal-practice and should be willing to advise you without charge. You may live in a state where lawyers no longer do closings in which case the title company may have screwed up. Check the policy and see if they have an exception for the fence if it is on your line.

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[Kyle Boatright]

Comments inserted below:

Required? Absolutely not.

2 things... 1) Does he need a building permit in the first place? 2) He needs to keep it on his property unless he makes a different agreement with you.

If the fence was there when you purchased the home, you don't have much room to complain about the existing fence. You do have the right to request that the neighbor move the fence line to his property if he reconstructs part of the fence.

KB

[Edwin Pawlowski]

N O ! ! !

Is it replacing the old section in the same place? If so, probably not. There may have been an agreement with the original owner of your house letting it be right on the line.

Agreement as to placement may be binding, but unless it was disclosed prior to sale to you, there is no obligation to maintain the fence. Ed

[tnom]

The only reference to a fence is from a survey drawing from the title company. It shows a wooden fence drawn on the property line. This fence is no longer there. It was replaced a couple of years ago. The only notification I got about the new fence was a notification that I should pay for half. I refused on the reasoning that the fence is only there because of his pool.

In the future, if the fence requires repair, and my neighbor asks for help with the cost, what should my response be?

[m Ransley]

1 no 2 just a permit, but be sure it isnt on your side of the line, on the line is ok

[Lawrence Wasserman]

I'm sure you will get a lot of answers here and some of them may even becorrect, but the only way you will know for sure is to call your local zoning board or whatever local agency has jurisdiction in the community where you live.

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

Hey Tnom, i have my back fence at my house that is getting bad and i need you to chip in on the cost of repairing it. I know we probley live in different states but your close enough to ask you to chip in on it. i will accept cash or check. Hope to see a check in the mail soon. Oh, i'll keep you posted on the replacement after i receive your check.

Oh yea, awwwwww the replacement will cost about $1,200.00 and you only need to pay $600.00 of the replacementment cost.

Thank you for your help in advance.

TURTLE

[Gary Brown]

Notification from your neighbor to pay half?

Pool owners have a responsibility to have a fence by code. Since its obvious this is why the fence is placed, I would check with your zoning to see if a fence can be _on_ the line. In my area, you can go upto, but not on the line.

I would tell the lunkhead to move the fence if you're not allowed to be on the line. Neighbor has a set of 16lb balls to ask you to help with the repairs.

Tell s/he if they want to own a pool, they have to accept the responsibilities that go with it.

[Jeff Cochran]

Not normally. Assuming you didn't sign an agreement with your neighbor and no binding agreement transferred with the title to the property, the only other thing to check would be any homeowner's association covenants or local ordinances.

Maybe, maybe not. That's up to local codes. Locally, a fence may be on the property line in certain circumstances, and there is no need for an agreement between the neighbors. In my mother's jurisdiction, unless the fence is a shared fence and there is an agreement between the neighbors, the fence must be at least one foot inside the proerty line. Which makes for quite a few two foot lanes of unmowed grass between neighbors.

The only legal jurisdiction in your case likely isn't answering questions on this newsgroup. If it were me, I'd talk with the neighbor about it long before I started looking for legal advice on the internet...

Jeff

[David Efflandt]

Fence expenses on lot lines between farms/ranches were traditially shared

50/50, since both benefit by containing their own animals. But since this fence appears to be for your neighbor's benefit only (likely required for the pool), they should put it on their own property per applicable codes, and own it completely. Or do you benefit by not seeing your neighbor's family?

Even after you check the local legalities, you may want to consider whether you want to be technically correct and have a hostile neighbor, or maintain goodwill.

[avoidspam]

Unless of course they ask and out of the "goodness of your heart" you agree to share the cost, but considering that it is not YOUR fence and they may be required to have it because of the pool why would you volunteer?

1) They may not need a building permit for a fence (in the municipality where we live there is no requirement for a permit for a fence, BUT approval of the municipal authorities is required regarding the type of fence put along/facing specific types of streets and roads

- there is a maximum height limit on any fence in the town too!

2) Although no permits are required a fence may be placed anywhere on the property or on the property boundary - neighborhoods that are part of a planned unit development may have specific requirements for a home owner to obtain prior approval regarding the location and styles of fences permitted by the association.

Any agreement between the previous owner and your neighbor would have had to have been registered and incorporated with the deed to the property if it was intended to apply to successive owners of your property. You would have had to have been aware of this and agreed to it at the time you took title to the property.

Although you may request that the neighbor move the fence, they probably are not obligated to comply with your request, especially if the fence is located on the boundary line.

[jim]

if you dont want a fence dont do anything.. if he wants to put up a new fence theh he can do it.... just dont hang anything on "HIS" fence..... and make sure its on his side of the property line.....

[jim]

tell the neighbor that if it was up to you that you would just tear down the fence... let him/her know that you dont care for fences and try to talk them into not having a fence.. he/she will then say: "Oh i got a pool and need a fence." then you tell them, "Well, its OK with me, but i cant afford one now, sorry."""

[SteveB]

It all depends on the neighbor, how long you intend to live their, and your personality.

If your neighbor is a reasonable sort, and the kind of person you want to live next door to, a capitulation on the fence might be appropriate. I wouldn't let him bully you into paying half of the fence since you will get NO use out of it, but a token payment would be a good thing.

If you want to live there a long time, and start off on the right foot with the person you will probably see most, it would be wise to start off amicably.

If you are the type of person who believes that they are right, and doesn't care what the other person thinks, do whatever you want.

HTH

Steve

[George E. Cawthon]

In the first place it was just plain rude to tell you owed half without having discussed it with you first and to find out what your desires were. States and localities are wildly different in real estate matters. But it is likely that none of it is your responsibility and you should refuse help with the cost of both construction and maintenance if the fence provides no benefits to you.

[Art Begun]

In most states there is something called Adverse Possession. If someone encroaches your property openly and maintains it, in a certain number of years he owns it. If you give him permission then he can never own it because his action is not adverse to his rights. I don't known how long adverse possession takes in your state but the clock may be ticking. It usually is a long time like 10 to 25 years. In any case you risk losing a few feet of property if he is on your line without permission. Normally he has to have a set back. Whether not having a set pack is the same as being on your property and maintaining it for the purposes of adverse possession, I do not know and you should find out.

Check

[Rob Mills]

have your approval before he puts it on the property line, otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

[JerryMouse]

Under most circumstances, yes.*

If you say nothing when he erected the fence, you consented to its placement. Where he puts the fence does not impact your obligations. Either way, you're in for half.*

• Here's the drill. You are responsible for your portion of the cost under the principle of unjust enrichment. At the first moment you detect such a project underway, you must announce your opposition. Failing to say anything, under the principle of "assent by silence," you implicitly conset to the construction and its attendant costs.

Interestingly, much of contract law can be covered using "the fence" concept as examples (the rest can be covered by the concepts of "the bull" and "the pit").

When studying "the fence," you can get off into interesting areas such as "no notice" (the fence was erected while you slept), "total cost" (you consented - by silence - to the idea of a fence, but not one made of polished marble with gold gryphens), and so on.

[montana]

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Our neighbors wanted to put up a fence around their yard & also replace a bit of fence that actually was ours. Some of the fence was right on the property line. Even though they were replacing a fence, they had to get a special variance from the city because there wasn't enough room for a proper inset. We also had to write a letter of support for this project. Permits are required for fences and neighbors have to agree to any variance.

We had wanted to replace the beaten down little picket fence with a privacy fence but hadn't gotten around to doing it. When the neighbors asked us to pay half of the cost for that portion, I said I'd have to talk with DH about it. After I hung up the phone & told him about it, we did a dance of joy that we were only going to have to pay half. I waited until the next day to call them back and agree to the payment & make some requests (we have dogs & dogs & no fence are a bad combination).

I don't know how much room there is between the property line & the fence, but having the fence properly inset would benefit you. I would suggest that since the neighbor's pool is kind of a nuisance, the newer fence would benefit you. Since you have no use for fences, I can understand why you don't want to pay for a part of your neighbor's fence, but I would ask what your neighbor thinks is a fair amount to chip in & negotiate from there.

I agree with SteveB about it all depending on the neighbor. Our neighbors are very nice people (she's a master gardener) and we would do just about anything to keep them happy because we are not the best neighbors in the world. As it turned out, the fence cost more than what they quoted us and they told us they'd pick up the extra cost. We added to the check.