Electrical Conduit Question

[DerbyDad03]

Current Set Up:

1 - Residential setting 2 - Cloth covered 2 conductor "romex" running inside steel conduit to bathroom ceiling light fixture. 3 - One nut on inside of fixture box, one nut on outside, securing threaded conduit to the fixture box. 4 - Access to fixture and conduit from above is available through attic floor.

Goal:

Replace old light fixture with exhaust fan/light fixture. Single unit, fan and light controlled by a single switch.

Problem:

Conduit extends into area where the new fixture will be placed. About

4" of conduit needs to be cut off.

Question:

The fan has a plastic box for the wires with 1/2" knockouts for a romex clamp. Is it OK to cut the conduit back as far as needed and simply let the cloth covered romex extended freely from the end of the conduit into the romex clamp or is a junction box required so that the end of the conduit can be secured?

If a junction box is required, is there a special connector that can be used since the threads will have been cut off?

BTW...I have not yet seen the current set up, only spoken to my son about the issue. I should be able to actually see it this weekend. I've told you everything I know about the situation so far.

Thanks!

[Chip C]

Is the conduit required at all? By some local code? Or is this a multi-unit= building?

Outside a few special places that we read about (Chicago? NYC?) romex by it= self should be fine within the enclosed walls and ceilings of a single-fami= ly residence.

So if it doesn't need to be there at all, I would postulate that it doesn't= matter how much of it you cut back, and it doesn't need to be coupled to t= he new box. Just let the romex emerge from it and run to the new fixture.

If there's some reason it was required to begin with, then scratch that.

Some further comments:

- I'm unclear whether romex within conduit is code-compliant. I had underst= ood that metallic conduit was to contain individual insulated wires ("THHN"= or similar). But I've never worked with conduit; I considered it for my ga= rage but went with AC (aka BX), partly because I couldn't find a decent how=

-to on working with conduit outside commercial properties. So on this I wil= l defer to pretty much anyone who says they know what they're talking about= .

- Cloth-covered romex is old. Code may not technically require existing cab= le to be replaced for a job like this but if the fan/light thing says it re= quires conductors rated to 90 C, you may not be in compliance in that respe= ct.=20

- Does that romex have a ground conductor? I'd want a bathroom fixture grou= nded. They may have been depending on the conduit for ground. In which case= , terminating the conduit at a metallic box somewhere nearby and running gr= ounded romex from there to the new fixture may be an option--and that fixes= the 90C requirement at the new fixture, too. Of course that box will need = to remain "accessible" so you may need to leave it exposed through the atti= c floor, which may or may not be acceptable. As to how to clamp the conduit= at the new box; I thought there were terminations that clamped onto metall= ic conduit with setscrews. Certainly that's what I see for surface-mounted = metallic conduit in commercial buildings.=20

Chip C Toronto

[trader4]

I don't know exactly what the code says, but last year I installed my own furnace and had it pass electrical. The old furnace from 25 years ago used romex from the panel to the joist above the furnace. Then the romex was passed through a metal conduit to the furnace switch box. I did the same and it passed. I've also seen that done on new furnace installs here in NJ, which is why I did it. But then the fact they used romex inside a conduit for a bathroom fixture suggests that this may be a city or such with different requirements.

The typical small conduit of that size that I've seen doesn't use threads. It uses a metal fitting that goes into the box, the conduit slips into the fitting and is secured with a screw that tightens from the side.

[Evan]

No, you would have to make a proper transition...

The easiest way to do that which is commonly used in commercial buildings where armored cable is joined to conduit to go down a wall cavity to a switch box or outlet box is to use a normal EMT fitting, then a Rigid Metal Conduit coupler to connect to an AC type clamp... The conductors fed into the conduit and outlet box are those from the AC which have had the outer metallic protection removed to the transition point where conduit meets armored cable...

That fact that some wiring method is not required where you happen to find it does not mean that the applicable code dictating its proper use ceases to apply... It is what is installed so you have to either work with it properly or remove it...

Is there some reason why the conduit can not be connected to the new fan fixture ?

[Evan]

You have rigid conduit, you would have to cut new threads on the end of it if you make the run shorter...

Might be worth it to just remove and replace with a modern length of Romex...

[DerbyDad03]

This is a fairly old house in a suburb so I don't know if the conduit is there because of code or just because the builder/electrician wanted to use it.

As I noted below, i haven't seen the set up yet. When I asked my son how the conduit was attached to the box he said there was nut on the inside and outside of the box. I asked him if the conduit was threaded and he very quickly answered that it was. When I verified that by asking if the threads would be cut off when he shortens the conduit he once again answered yes.

I'll know for sure when I see it this weekend.

[gfretwell]

They make thread less compression fittings for rigid metal conduit.

[Art Todesco]

Or, if you can move the conduit to one side or the other of where the fixture resides. Then, put in a junction box and a short run of whatever is code for your area, i.e. Romex or BX. And, if the conduit is all that is providing the safety ground, you might want to tighten up the nut at the other end .... like in the switch box, or add a green safety ground wire inside the conduit.

[clare]

EMT or Rigid conduit? EMT is not threaded - the current fitting can be re-used.

HOWEVER - Romex is NOT supposed to be run in conduit - -

[PV]

I have never seen threaded emt conduit, but have used these to connect conduit to a box

Cannot comment on whether running romex in conduit is against code or not, too many differing opinions on the web

[gfretwell]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with running Romex in conduit, as long as you follow the fill requirement.

[PV]

I didn't think it was an issue but I work in low voltage and leave code work to the electricians

[gfretwell]

The NEC covers low voltage work too but that may be a shock to a lot of people. Some AHJs are even asking for permits these days since there are not many actual utility company employees (who are exempt). Florida licenses low voltage contractors.

[John Grabowski]

*No. The conduit is probably serving as the grounding conductor. You would need a metal junction box and can use metal flexible conduit to feed the new fan. Once the junction box is connected properly and tightly to the conduit, you can also use Romex from there to feed the fan. Just attach the ground wire to the metal box tightly. If that conduit extends down to the switch, you may be able (With elbow grease) to pull out the old cloth cable and pull in some individual conductors. That way you can have two switches, one for fan, one for light.

*After you cut the pipe, make sure there are no burrs inside or out. A small round file is useful for deburring the inside. You would use a compression connector on the end of the pipe. They are available for rigid and EMT conduit.

[PV]

However in Alberta, low voltage falls outside of code and we are not licensed. I wish we could be recognized as a trade and licensed but the employers prefer it the other way.

[Doug Miller]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Baloney.

Non-metallic sheathed cable ("Romex") is permitted in conduit in any location where it is permitted without conduit -- and there are circumstances under which the NEC

*requires* it to be in conduit.

The CEC may be different, I don't know -- but I bet not. I doubt that you can cite any article of the CEC which prohibits running Romex in conduit, and I'm sure you can't cite that in the NEC.