Electrical Breaker and dust collector question

[jtpr]

I have a Delta 1.5 Hp dust collector I bought used, so I'm not sure how old it is. I currently have it plugged into the 20 amp circuit in my shop. I also have a Rigid TS3650 Table Saw, plugged into the same circuit. This works fine if I walk over and turn on the DC then go use the TS.

I bought one of those vac switches at Woodcraft the other day. This is the thing you plug your DC into and then a tool. When you power on the tool, the DC comes on. This works fine with my sander, mitre saw, router, etc. But when I use the TS the breaker pops. This is new electrical as of 1 year. I guess my question is does anybody know if there is a kind of breaker that will handle a momentary spike like this or could there be something wrong with my DC that is causing this. I do know that if I try to run the DC on a 15 amp circuit all by itself it will blow the breaker.

-Jim

[bob haller]

both are powering on at the exact same time, the high current draw is too much.

can you put the saw on one breaker and the dust collector on a different circuit.

table saws live better on a dedicated 20 amp circuit.

[Gus]

You can use a "slow trip" breaker - but be very aware of what you are doing and the ramifications thereof.

This saw draws 13 A at 120 VAC.

Many (most) tools have a higher draw when starting than when running.

Also, make darn sure that your "20 amp circuit" is actually WIRED for

20 AMP and not 15. Just something to check.

Also, what else is using that line?

[ransley]

Use an amp meter to see if it pulls to much and something is wrong.

[Nova]

13 amps for the saw and about the same for 1.5 HP dust collector. Typically a 110 volt auto-switch is rated for 15 amps or less. Also check the current rating of the switch before you burn it out.

[jtpryan]

I could do that, but then I couldn't use the vac switch.

-Jim

[jtpryan]

Yes, it is wired 20 Amp, 12 gauge yellow. I had the electrician wire it for this when we renovated the house. Nothing else would be using the line, I just power on one tool at a time.

How hard is it to change the breaker?

Jim

[jtpryan]

So could there be something amiss with the DC as it blows a 15 amp breaker?

-Jim

[HeyBub]

Almost trivial.

1. Remove breaker panel cover.
2. Turn off the target breaker.
3. Remove the wire by unscrewing the connector.
4. Lever out the old breaker (look at the new breaker for the technique)
5. Insert the new breaker - push it down really hard
6. Re-connect the previously disconnected wire. Tighten the screw really well.
7. Turn on the new breaker.
8. Replace panel cover.

Alternatively, you might try a radio controlled on-off switch. The kind that allows you to turn on a lamp from across the room. Attach the remote control to the table saw. Plug your jig saw (or a lamp) into the switch.

Start the saw, wait a sec, push the button to turn on the jig saw/lamp, which, in turn, will activate the dust collector.

What you're trying to do here is avoid two high-current motors from starting at the same time.

[spaco]

If you read the above posts carefully, I think you'll see that it isn't a good idea to change the breaker without increasing the wire size, since you are really pushing that 12 ga. wire. You didn't say how long the run from the main disconnect to the wall receptacle is. The longer the run, the bigger the voltage drop to the tools, particularly in Power-up mode. I suggest that, to make sleeping at night easier, you get that electrician back, replace the 12 ga wire with 10 ga, and THEN go to to

30 amp breaker. If you DO consider going that way, anothe option is to consider having them bring 220 to that point. Your saw, and maybe your DC may be able to be rewired to run on 220. If so, you won't have to replace the wires (you mentioned that they are yellow, (which is wrong,anyway)so, as long as there's a gound wire, you have enough leads to do the job.

Pete Stanaitis

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jtpryan wrote:

[dpb]

jtpr wrote: ...

The easiest fix is to return the one you bought for the remote starting switch...

Alternatively, find one of the plug-in types similar to what you have but that has a start delay built in as well as stopping to eliminate the simultaneous starting surge or one that senses motor current from one circuit but allows the tool to be on another. If the one you have plugs into the saw outlet and the tool to be controlled plugs into it, it would be more difficult to modify. There are just current sensors w/ start relays that serve the other function.

My only recommendation on breaker changeout would be that should have run 30A service for shop circuit instead of 20A, but by Code that would be 10ga, not 12ga.

A longer time-delay is probably possible to find, but I'd venture it might be more expensive than the remote start option above.

[Leon]

Something sounds like it could be wrong, I use a 1.5hp collector that recommends a 20 amp circuit, on 15 amp circuit along with a 15 amp router. Both coming on at the same time is a problem.

In answer to your question, there are slow blow breakers to address situations like this but I would still be cautious.

[Nova]

There are also quite a few circuit breakers from a number of different manufacturers that have been recalled due to failure to trip when overloaded. Federal Pacific is one example:

[bob haller]

add a second breaker for the saw or dust collector.

have the auto switch trip a contactor, basically a large high capacity relaY.

END OF PROBLEM:)

[jtpryan]

OK, I would agree with that on the surface. But bear with me a minute and point out the folly of my logic. Say I put a 30 amp breaker in there to handle the initial spike. The point of this entire exercise is to have the DC running as little as possible and only as needed. So, that being said, how dangerous is it if I have the 30 in there, fire up the TS and DC for all of maybe 3 min at a time at the absolute max, probably less, and that's it. I do this as a hobby, not production, so my typical style is to turn on the TS, make 1 or 2 cuts, and turn it off. Is there something I'm missing?

-Jim

[dpb]

jtpryan wrote: ...

Yes. 12ga wire isn't rated (by Code) for 30A.

It is a _VERY_ bad idea, akin to albeit not as bad as the penny in the bottom of the fuse socket but the overcurrent condition required to trip a 30A breaker on 20A-rated circuit is dangerous and should not be considered.

Either find a sequential switch or use something like the remote switch I posted a link to, rearrange to use two circuits and a control suitable for that arrangement, pull 10 ga and upgrade to a 30A circuit or revert to manually starting one and then the other from their respective manual switches.

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[Leon]

I wonder how Festool does that. IIRC my Festool Vac delays starting up a second or two after the tool that is plugged into it gets past its initial start up surge.

[HeyBub]

Why not compromise and replace the breaker with the "slo-blo" variety? They are built to accept temporary surges without going all crazy. One variety is "High Magnetic Circuit Breaker" which will withstand temporary loads of up to 20x its rated capacity. Here's one:

[dpb]

Leon wrote: ...

It has a time delay.

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[Leon]

Yeah, about a second or two. I was wondering how they implement it.