Disaster waiting to happen? Using PVC for deck supports???

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snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net wrote:

Sure there is. Steel will do either (or both) depending on the conditions.
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CJT wrote:

Exactly, the perfect example is to consider what is actually happening when you squeeze the lever on a cutting torch.
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That, imho, is a perfect example of melting, not "burning"
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen06/gen06008.htm
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snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net wrote:

some of it does indeed burn. if you don't believe me, hold a match under a wad of 0000 steel wool. Outside, or in a deep sink...
nate
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On Thu, 22 May 2008 15:21:41 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net wrote:

Reference aside, do you know what cutting torch is how it works?
A cutting torch *burns* the steel using a stream of oxygen that is triggered by the lever, though the steel must be hot enough that it will burn first. However, not all the steel is burned, some does fly off as molten metal.
Melting a material changes its state. The state can be restored by lowering its temperature.
Burning a material changes the material's composition usually combining it with oxygen to form a new substance (iron oxide, for exmaple) Once a material is burned lowering its temperature won't restore it.
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And how many angels did you get to dance on the head of that pin? You're engaged in sophistry. We are discussing steel columns and house fires. For all intents and purposes there is no burning of a steel column. But feel free to continue the debate - let me know when you feel you're winning.
R
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Really, I sit corrected--steel does burn!
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On Fri, 23 May 2008 07:56:33 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

I always win, or so my wife tells me. For some reason I have to believe her--I think it is because she told me so.
That said...
Steel columns in a house fire are not an issue. The house will be long gone before they fail.
What we *were* discussing was whether cement in a column (of any composition) adds strength, and if so, how much, and as well why add cement.
Cement is added to a Lally column to prevent collapse or pinching failures. Who cares what happens when the steel softens to the point of failure? The game's over at that point regardless, the house will be long gone, and the failure of other members of the structure will make any column's ability to withstand fire a non-issue.
But, what the heck, let's argue onwards.
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The firemen trying to save people in the house may care a lot about that concrete in those columns. That's why the building fire safety codes insist on them being there.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

I've seen two claims of fire codes requiring concrete fill, yet I've seen no reference posted to a fire code that does require that in residential construction. Reference??
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Check with your local building department.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

As I suspected ... you are just making up stuff.
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snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net wrote:

Actually no, consider what the extra oxygen supplied when you squeeze the lever is supporting.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

It also does provide much improved buckling resistance.
The PVC filled column is a very dumb idea unless an engineer has computed the capacity of the column and sized it appropriately for the anticipated loads.
Matt
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Yes, buckling that would be caused by the heat of a FIRE.
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Check the temp that would cause steel to buckle. Now see what happens to concrete at that temp. Lou
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Steel softens about 800F, if memory serves. Interior building fires can get over 1300F at ceiling level. Twenty year old information, I'm likely wrong. But the asbestos or cement around the steel helps in case of fire.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

No, buckling caused by heavy load as well. A column doesn't need fire to buckle.
Matt
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Matt Whiting wrote:

M:
Although no one addressed the question, the geophysical stability of the location would be of some measured consideration. Performance of the columns on soil subject to liquefaction in a seismic event merits concern in the right circumstances. A first-hand look at the density of steel used in the recent rebuilds of L.A. freeway overpass supports is amazing.
Whether the OP or owner has further interest in possible remedies for any shortcomings in this case is a another question.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

But surely if that was the only reason for the concrete it would far easier and cheaper just to coat the steel with an intumescent paint?
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