Did they change treated lumber AGAIN?

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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Arsenic can come from many sources. Including water.
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dadiOH
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I suspect that if researchers are testing for heightened levels in a population, like 82 kids who used the same playground, they take "normal levels" into account.
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Let's say lots of exposure to ocean water in 1942, and I have a table with that day saying anywhere from .003 to .024 ppm then. I surely doubt anyone even with heavy exposure to ocean water and high seafood consumption had any ill effects from the arsenic there. So I would think tere is a safe amount.
I am also amazed that people think of formaldehyde as something so dangerous that zero tolerance is required. Better not eat any live green plants being exposed to light then - formaldehyde is the output of the first chemical reaction of photosynthesis.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

Isn't that amazing? The same people have no clue that water, salt or a million other substances will kill you if you injest too much. Hence the girl who died after that water drinking radio contest a few months ago.
-- "Tell me what I should do, Annie." "Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Arsenic is NOT dangerous per se. It is a scare-word designed to invoke fear and stoke the fires of irrationality.
Arsenic IS dangerous in the appropriate concentrations. So is water. So is bleach. So is traffic!
No one, so far as I can tell, has ever died or gotten sick from treated lumber. A LOT of people, however, have had sleepless nights and had to go on tranquilizers from worrying about it. The reason there are a LOT of people wringing their hands over the subject is a statement like "all smart poeple... know that arsenic (sic) is dangerous."
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You're unaware of the fact that dangerous levels are often reached slowly, and because it's rare, most doctors don't know what to look for nowadays.
Tell ya what: You experiment with arsenic on YOUR kids. Let us know how that goes, Clevis.
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There seems to be adequate evidence that people _have_ gotten harmed by CCA lumber. But this isn't playground/back deck/cottage dock etc contact.
This is people who routinely burn CCA (despite everything telling you _not_ to burn CCA) or have long term exposure to copious quantities of CCA sawdust without any precautions whatsoever.
The latter is a hazard with untreated cedar too.
I agree it's overblown. But it isn't a complete myth.
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Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
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Clevis thinks the old type of treated lumber should've been kept on the market until children actually got sick and they became "data".
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Is a metal pin. You seem confused.

We've had several generations of children grow up with that stuff, and not get sick.
There's actually more proof that cedar lumber can harm you (including my own personal experiences). OSHA rates it as a carcinogen and sensitizer.
Should we ban cedar too?
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
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Rick Blaine wrote:

WHAT???? You expect parents to be responsible? I thought that was the government's job. To take care of us...to wipe our asses from the cradle to the grave.
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dadiOH
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I'm sure that more than one person has met their end by being clunked with a piece of cedar.
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Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
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On 19 Oct, 09:35, snipped-for-privacy@notmail.com wrote:

re: How in the hell can one person hold the pieces of lumber in place, hold the screw and hold a clumbsy screw gun all at once.
I do it all the time with these:
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/71WK7S5MANL._AA280_.gif
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wrote:
-snip-

That and a magnetic bit and you don't even have to put your beer down.
Jim
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My two cents worth. I was in the lumber treating business for a period of ten years ,70-80. The best long treatment back then was Penta, but then the EPA decided it was to toxic to use. Since, they have came up with different formulas. Really, I don't think any are worth their cost. a good coat of paint is your best protection.
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wrote:

I remember Penta, in fact I think I have a few gallons of it in my garage yet. Before that there was Creosote, which seems to have always worked. Heck, my original barn is built from posts that are creosote coated power poles. The barn was built in the 60's. The posts were probably used power poles. All but one of them is still in great shape. (One was rotten at the ground level and I had to install another post next to it and bolt them together). These poles are probably 60 or more years old. They also banned creosote, (except for power poles). I really could never understand how coal tar could be so toxic. Although creosote is pretty messy. I agree on the paint, but underground that dont help (as in posts).
What gets me is that I have never met any person that eats lumber. Yet, I have had horses chew up (the old) treated wood adn they never died from it. These days I only use hardwood around them, or cover the treated wood with metal. So, while we people that dont eat lumber are now safe if we do, we will in 10 years or so, fall to our deaths when the nails fail on our upper porches, and if that dont happen, ConAgra will kill us with their constantly contaminated food of late.
By the way, I looked at one board that I have near the house and it says C2 C9. I assume that means copper treatment, thus needs the special fastners. This is NOT the stuff I just bought which is not put away at the moment.
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On Oct 22, 1:59?am, snipped-for-privacy@notmail.com wrote:

probably best to outlaw all fasteners but stainless, to prevent confusion.
dont laugh regulators MUST justify their jobs, or get unemployeed.
altough I agree with banmning known hazards, better safe than sorry espically around kids
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snipped-for-privacy@notmail.com wrote:

I used some of that new corrosive green-treated lumber to build some raised beds in my garden a few years ago. I used 16d bright common nails in a nail gun to fasten them. They haven't failed yet. I'm gonna knock one of the beds apart soon to see if there's any significant corrosion.
The problem might be poorly-galvanized fasteners. (Challenge: just try to find any hot dipped galvanized roofing nails)
Bob
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As contrary sample, my sister-in-law's ACQ deck had railing spindles randomly falling off in less than 3 years because the screws had rotted through. These are those yellow colored ones, not bare "brights", so they should have _some_ protection.
Weather and other individual details are going to matter.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
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On Oct 19, 8:18 am, snipped-for-privacy@notmail.com wrote:

I wasn't aware of a new Pressure Treated(PT) lumber, but as a former salesman of fasteners we had to label our boxes with the ACQ (or CCA) approval. There was a mention of using Yellow screws. I would not recommend them for exterior use but then again our brand wasn't meant to be used outside. Our competitors had a yellow screw and they said it was PT approved but I wouldn't trust my nieces on that swing set!
This PT that is corrosive to some metals was used in Europe and later banned because of other products used to make ACQ/CCA treated wood.
Here is a list of manufacturers that are ACQ approved: http://superiorwoodtreating.com/docs/fastener_ACQ.pdf here is a clip from that PDF: "Fasteners for pressure-preservative treated wood shall be of hot- dipped galvanized steel, stainless steel, silicon bronze or copper...." Our product (national manu.) was not hot dipped or SS, but did have a epoxy (not ceramic) coating on it. The epoxy was better than the ceramic. Our competitor apparently had the ceramic fasteners approved but they are not listed on the pdf list above. Yes Stainless is the best, but wow $$.
SO, if you are using PT use the proper fasteners for the wood you are using. At least use exterior wood screws in wet/damp conditions.
Nails, well... fill your boots, if you are using twisted ardox nails... as long as they are hot dipped and not just common you are fine. I used common ardox this summer and they started to rust. Because the nails were shipped to the location and the slip said they were galv. I figured that they were... i now have nice rusty lines on the framing of my deck. (Luckily I was able to hide them all with trim and added a #10 screw here and there just in case)
If the guy at the store doesn't know, ask for the buyer. Only the buyer knows (should) what lumber was ordered. Don't trust the guy that doesn't know the difference between hot dipped galv and electro galv.
PT is still not 100% guaranteed to not rot. Like another post said, use plain wood and paint/stain. Eventually you will still have to re- treat your PT wood. PT might outlast the plain/natural wood but i probably won't be there to see it as long as i stain or paint!
cln (to avoid hammering your thumb, use both hands on the hammer)
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According to an article I read not too long ago, there are approximately 5 competing technologies. ACQ just being the most common one on the market - it eats fasteners.
There's at least one more type that's fairly common, depending on where you are.
The rest, at the time, were either still in development and/or very limited distribution.
They had different characteristics, including some that didn't eat fasteners like ACQ does.
May be that the batch you bought from was the "other kind". Or they were just confused.
The labels should help.
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Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
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