Yes, there is. That's why I asked for a specific location. Problem is, you see, you're splitting hairs and only adding confusion the way you're doing it here. A location would let me look it up and let me see what it's all about. Which I've also already asked for.
HTH,
Twayne`
Reality according to the law fits better. NO region exists that is not under some regulations. It also sounds like you have no idea about what the County requirements are. Where is this mythical city?
The above says nothing. I'll give you a hint for citations: Start by looking at ANSI and perhaps a trip to your local town hall.
I've used 3rd party inspectors as well, in DC and in NoVA. Some places have regular inspectors that are county employees, some don't. Some jurisdictions tell you to hire a 3rd party for huge projects but send out regular county inspectors for small ones.
nate
There are far fewer private inspectors now than there were in 2005-6. Most departments had to lay off inspectors and can't keep the ones they have busy. A lot of the time you have building code inspectors driving around running "tall grass" complaints..
You do realize that ANSI is also a private not-for-profit corporation that has no other standing (i.e. other than being a not-for-profit 501 (c)3) with the federal government?
The NEC is not a "body". The NFPA creates the NEC.
Cite. Feds? UN? T-party? The pope?
Hallucinations do not count.
The NEC explicitly gives the AHJ authority to modify NEC requirements in particular cases.
The NEC is one of many standards that come from the NFPA. None of them are applicable unless adopted in whole or part by an "authority". (ANSI is not that authority.)
A number of jurisdictions had less stringent, or no, rules on AFCIs.
According to you that can't happen.
Beyond stupid. Jurisdictions don't need ANSI permission to adopt what they want (or nothing).
Does not exist in the NEC. Acceptance is by the AHJ.
Geez - I guess the NFPA could include all of its standards in one document. That would be real useful.
You are apparently educated beyond your intelligence.
What ever happened to you promise to HeyBub: "next time I'll be a lot more careful."
-- bud--
It is a set of recommendations. That is all.
False. You completely misunderstand what the Code is.
Any jurisdiction may, if it wishes, adopt the Code in toto or in part, as law, and modify it in any way it chooses. The Code has no legal force.
Indeed this is good advice; you should consider following it.
I never said that.
False. The NEC is not a set of regulations at all. It is a set of recommended practices to ensure electrical safety. It has no regulatory force whatever. That force comes from laws or ordinances that adopt the Code as the electrical standard for a particular jurisdiction -- and any jurisdiction is free to adopt, or not adopt, the Code or any part of it as law as it sees fit.
That's easy enough. There are numerous locales that have *no* electrical code whatever. That certainly qualifies as "less stringent rules than the NEC".
Completely irrelevant. Read what the NEC says about itself.
You claimed that the NEC consists of "criteria of many different organizations ... (NFPA etc)." That's not true. The NEC is the product of the NFPA alone.
Nobody ever said it was.
Ummm...no. The NFPA is the author of the NEC.
Time to put up, or shut up. Specify what exactly is "off base" in that statement.
How can you debate with a guy that pulls all of his "facts" out of his ass. Nothing he spews has any basis in truth, it's just made up as he goes along. Has he ever documented anything to back up his nonsense?
Dude, get it through YOUR head that you have placed and are placing your safety for wiring inspections (is that all wiring including fire alarms, or does FDNY still have its own inspection people who verify those systems) in the hands of a PRIVATE BUSINESS who can and will keep many things about the way it works secret...
Obama has nothing to do with it and only a true nut-job themselves would make such a reference... Business is motivated by MONEY not by public safety... That fact that you can't see that definitely tells me that you can't see when you are being led around by the nose...
~~ Evan
ANSI and NFPA are private organizations. I have a hunch that any others contributing to NEC are also private organizations. NEC is a product of NFPA more than anything else.
Underwriters' Laboratories is a private organization.
Private organizations do not make laws. Only governments make laws.
The NEC is law only where gubmint makes it the law, and USA's Federal gubmint does not make NEC into law. Maybe 98-99% of USA's population lives in counties or municipalities where the building code makes NEC in full as of some specific year (sometimes with further restrictions) into law. Some localities forbid retailing of electrical equipment of kinds that UL establishes listing requirements for but is not listed by UL or one of its competitors. Fire insurance companies can cause grief over using electrical equipment "other than as directed" or if UL has requirements for it to be listed and the equipment is not listed by UL (or one of their competitors). Failure of building work to comply with NEC may contribute to one who did non-compliant work to be on the short end of a civil court case.
But the writers of NEC do not make law, and USA's Federal gubmont is generally not in the business of building codes (even though they regulate employment and workplace safety practices and manufacturing, and usage and disposal and transportation of some materials).
(Strange fun fact: Ballastless light bulbs are usually not UL listed, even if they are of the "Big 3" brands, GE, Philips, Osram-Sylvania.)
Personally, I'd take the advice from guys like RBM, Bud, and Doug based on their excellent knowledge of the NEC. And I have on many occasions. And contrary to your silly claim for the need to always call the local code office or zoning office, I've seen lots of people get good sound advice here. To claim that one needs to call the local code office to know the answer to basic NEC questions is nonsense. And along the lines of what RBM stated, in some areas of NJ; which isnt exactly some hillbilly terrritory, some municipalities use private electrical inspection companies. And those guys are NOT sitting around answering homeowner questions on how to do electrical work correctly.
RBM posted for all of us...
Don't worry, Clinton has already marked his territory.
LOL! the county just to the south of me has no such "codes" "enforcement" or inspectors. You can build a complete house from scratch, and no such permits except for a septic system are required. So to say " You do have such an office," is not always correct.
We don't even have a septic system requirement. But I think farms of less than 50 or maybe it's 100 acres might have some kind of inspection requirement. As for his question, I have the 2005 code book but it will take me awhile to find it. So, I'll just try to answer this from memory. As for the wire nut question. I would not even consider the pigtail method if you are going direct to, and only to, a wall plug outlet. Just wire the black to the bronze with a wire nut (correct size), white to the silver with a wire nut (correct size), and the unwrapped copper to the green/ground. Now, if you are using a metal box, you definately should pigtail and ground to the box also and use a wire nut to connect the two wires (correct size). As for the junction box, I'm not sure what you're asking. If it is a straight run, why would you need a junction box? I might be confused by your terminology and maybe you are just talking about the eor (end of run) connections to the outlet. If that's the case, yes, you need the "junction" box.
Let me clarify something here. The wire nuts are used if you are going to use pigtails. Otherwise just connect direct to the outlet plug, black to bronze, white to silver and plain to green.
On Jul 2, 6:08=A0pm, "Twayne" wrote:
.com,
What law exactly? Cite it. There are so many misstatements in your replies that I must assume you are extrapolating a very narrow experience set to the whole continent. The National Electric Code is a privately published document. It only becomes enforceable when it has been adopted in whole or part by a state or a political subdivision of a state. Do you even know what a minimum / maximum state is? Just as almost half of US states do not have OSHA enforcement for government employees and smaller firms many state have no state wide electrical code. Only incorporated municipalities or charter counties can adopt local codes in most states. Statutory counties cannot, in most states, do anything not required of them by state statute. Many states and local jurisdictions have declined to adopt the Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter requirements of the last two code cycles and that is only one example of local exception to your so called absolute minimum. I have installed electrical installations from Argentina to Alaska and California to Maine. I have worked in many areas were there is no electrical code in place. Some of the companies I have worked for went through a great deal of research in trying to find a code enforcement authority for an installation only to conclude that the owners acceptance representative was the only authority having jurisdiction. There are in fact vast stretches of the United States of America that have no publicly enforced electric code of any kind.
-- Tom Horne
ps.com,
Evan Get a grip. He didn't say or even infer that the system he described is the only one to have. All he said is that it is what they have were he does business. I too have had to work with contract inspectors in several installations. What keeps them from playing fast and loose with the enforcement is a principal of tort law called harmful reliance. Since the contractor is paid by the customer the code enforcement contractor is actually working for the end user. When a firm entices anyone to rely on a product of service they provide and brings the person to harm they have created a cause of action at tort law. The risk that the firm offering a service or product undertakes is directly proportional to the potential harm and unlike a publicly employed inspector the contract firms cannot hide behind the states sovereign immunity.
-- Tom Horne
oups.com,
And if govt is so superior to any possibly private inspection, how well did having the govt Dept of Interior be responsible for controlling how offshore oil wells are drilled safely? Didn't they approve a worst case oil containment plan that not only didn't work, but was full of obvious factual errors, including dealing with Walrus? Didn't they continue to let BP operate after they had racked up 700+ willful and eggregious safety violations in the last several years. The next worst major oil company had around 10 violations and then it tails off to just a few for the rest.
replying to Twayne, GDogg23 wrote: I like the way you guys hijack the post so you can nitpick with each other. (Heavy sarcasm intended)
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