Debate over mandatory spriklers

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Kurt Ullman wrote:

Where water pressure may be inadequate, auxillary pumps are installed as part of the system.
You probably never inspected a munitions bunker, a Minuteman Missle silo, or similar. In my town, near the ship channel, is a WW2 Ordnance Depot. It has hundreds of munition bunkers that have these overhead water pipes.
Aside: The San Jacinto Ordnance Depot was sited on 5,000 acres and is comprised of these bunkers. Each bunker is about 150' long and 50' wide, and 20' high, made of concrete with 6-ft walls in the shape of a Quonset hut. Each bunker it topped with about ten feet of dirt. Between each bunker is a mound of soil higher than the bunker.
These bunkers are arranged in rows with VERY small thick steel-doored entrances (~3x6 ft) that face each other across a "street." The "street" is more like a concrete pad with a railroad track down its center. The bunkers are on either side of this 100' wide "street."
Over the years, since 1941, the dirt and mounds between the bunkers have been overgrown with a pine forest and assorted shrubbery.
You'd think the valuable land - on the Houston Ship Channel - would have been converted to something other than storage warehouses for honey. It hasn't, and I suppose the reason is the enormous cost to demolish these bunkers. For sure you can't blow them up!
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HeyBub wrote:

the back wall, designed to be weaker than the door, and to vent the pressure wave from an explosion away from the other bunkers. Any crew in the bunker would be a writeoff, of course, but they didn't want the whole yard going up.
As to linked sprinkler heads- I'm no expert, but I thought they just linked heads within the local firewall perimeter- ie, that wing or floor or whatever. No need to flood the whole building for a small fire.
-- aem sends...
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I missed those, I admit. Of course the original context of how they ALWAYS all go off on TV and how that is unlike reality (outside of maybe something they are doing on 24).
--
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But they do. I've seen it on TV so I know its real.
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Automatic Fire Sprinklers are always zoned. Except in some rather exotic systems, that protect risks containing flash fire or flammable liquid hazards, fire sprinkler heads; which is what the individual discharge nozzles are called; do not open until the temperature at the individual head reaches a set level and remains there long enough to melt the woods metal, or rupture the glass bulb, that hold it closed. In other words ordinary fire sprinkler heads open one at a time in response to the temperature at the head. They can be combined with a heat detector system that will shut off the water when the temperature has dropped to a safe level but such additional controls add markedly to the cost. There are even sprinkler heads that shut themselves when the temperature drops but there cost is quite high compared to the much simpler open and replace type. All fire sprinkler systems are easy to shut off but premature shut down is the primary cause of large losses in sprinklered premises. Many large cities have local laws or ordinances that forbid the closing of sprinkler valves prior to the fire department's permission.
-- Tom Horne
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Meanwhile, Barney Frank and Newt Gingrich having an argyment over whether it's "sprikler" or "sprinkler". Barney Frank is quoting Ted Kennedy, on the correct pronunciation.
--
Christopher A. Young
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HeyBub wrote:

will find a way to disable the sprinkler.
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wrote:

Actually the leading cause of home fires is smoking. I doubt sprinklers would have saved someone who died smoking in bed. But a working smoke detector probably would.
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Actually the leading cause of home fires is smoking. I doubt sprinklers would have saved someone who died smoking in bed. But a working smoke detector probably would.
*****************************************************************
True, but the sprinkler would possibly save the people in other rooms and save property damage to the rest of the house. Sprinklers certainly don't replace smoke detectors.
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On Sep 19, 8:13am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Unfortunately the smoke detectors do not save small children, the elderly and infirm, or the smoker themselves, because the smoking ignition is often coupled with the consumption of intoxicants which render the user incapable of responding effectively to the alarm. Children, and others that are incapable of self evacuation, can only be completely protected by automatic fire suppression. The office of the State Fire Marshal did a study of ten years worth of fire fatalities in the State. They concluded that about half of those deaths would have been prevented by a fire alarm system that would have automatically summon the fire department and that all except the smoking igniters; including the children and others who had died with the person who's smoking had caused the fire; would have been saved by fire sprinklers.
-- Tom Horne
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Tom Horne wrote:

One reason I have two different kind of detectors.
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HeyBub wrote:

The most important thing is that fire sprinklers are nothing like we see on TV and movies.
1) If one sprinkler goes off it does not trigger other sprinklers.
2) The sprinklers emit more of a mist then a "sprinkle" and cause less then 2% water damage than a fire hose in a similar situation.
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wrote:

Here is a short youtube video from the Fresno CA Fire Department.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqIE5lnsGrw

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HeyBub wrote:

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wrote:

If ignorance is bliss you must be one happy fellow. In actual fires bedridden patients, in the same room as the fire origin, survive fires suppressed by automatic fire sprinklers. This is why the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Hospitals (JCAH) requires sprinklers in all custodial health care facilities. To have smoke kill you the fire has to burn long enough to generate the type of smoke that does the killing. Since sprinklers extinguish the fire while there is still plenty of Oxygen in the compartment of origin the carbon monoxide and hydrogen cyanide gasses that would kill you are never produced in sufficient quantities to kill.
It is a legitimate exercise of the police power of the state to protect your neighbors from your actions. Requiring residential automatic sprinklers limits the effect of hostile fires to the compartment of origin. That eliminates any chance of the fire spreading to your neighbors home, limits the need for public spending for fire protection, and minimizes the effects of such fires on the community as a whole. Automatic Fire sprinklers are the least cost means of providing a community with effective fire protection. It also shifts the burden of providing the protection to the owners of the properties to be protected and off of the taxpayers. Large buildings which require the most fire protection incur the most fire protection cost. Tax exempt properties can still be required to protect themselves even if they are behind the religious shield. Fire Sprinkler laws are the single most effective way to make those who build the structure provide the means to prevent that structure from becoming a fire protection burden on the rest of the community.
-- Tom Horne, speaking only for himself
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Tom Horne wrote:

People die from smoke inhalation not lack of oxygen . ,
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Nobody dies from smoke inhalation, despite what the papers say. They die from lack of oxygen related to high levels of carbon monoxide and its higher affinity for hemoglobin essentially "kicking off" oxygen molecules. They die from burns to the lungs and other tissues. They sometimes die from the various nasty gases (such as phosgene and the ever popular cyanide) that are given off as products of combustion.
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Nope. Smoke comes from incomplete combustion, not stopped combustion.
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protection of property, and the occasional
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HeyBub wrote:

right, to hell with their opinions.
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