Chain Saw Bar Wear

[Jonathan Goodish]

I am a relatively new chain saw owner who has Googled extensively and read the owner's manual several times. I have a good degree of common sense, and try to take care, but I am destined to make stupid mistakes anyway.

After about 2 hours of use on the new saw going through cherry and ash, I started into some oak about 12" in diameter with a 20" bar on a Husky

346XP (fast saw). I worked through this for about an hour and noticed that the the oak seemed to be getting progressively harder to cut, requiring more pressure on the saw as I moved toward the base of the tree (tree had been felled already). Eventually, the bar and chain began to smoke, and I probably made 7 or 8 cuts until the bar and chain were smoking so badly it became obvious that something was seriously wrong... the bar oil on the bar was bubbling from the heat. I removed the bar from the log and ran the saw for about 30 seconds to oil the bar and allow the smoke to dissipate from the bar and chain.

I inspected the bar and noticed that the paint had disappeared along the edges of the bar, the Husky lettering in the center of the bar was completely gone, and there were a couple of spots in the center of the bar where the paint had disappeared. I suspect that the paint had simply burned off at these locations.

Obviously, the chain was dull. Why that wasn't obvious when I had to force the saw to cut is beyond me. That's the bad news.

The good news is that I inspected the bar and didn't see any obvious signs of damage. I didn't notice any "bluing" of the bar metal where the paint is gone, and I didn't notice any burring or flaring of the bar rails. I did flip the bar over and put a new Oregon chain on it, and the saw now cuts like a champ. I am not sure why the original Husky chain became so dull after only 3 hours on the saw, as I took care to keep it out of the dirt and certainly didn't hit anything other than wood during operation.

My question: What signs of damage to the saw, bar, or chain should I be looking for at this point? I suspect that the paint burning off of the bar is premature wear at this point, but I'm not sure if that is a indicator of damage. Does it sound like I got lucky this time, or could something have been damaged that is not yet obvious?

Thanks, JKG

[Greg O]

There probably is very little or no damage to the bar. How long a saw chain will stay sharp depends on the quality of the chain and what you are cutting. You may have hit a small stone or nail imbeded in the wood you are cutting. Dirt, stones, nails, wire, and more can be found in trees and you could cut into one with out even knowing. As your experiance grows you will realize when to sharpen, or change saw chains. Change them often! Do not force the saw to cut, just guide it throught the cut. If you plan on cutting a fair amount of wood you should have 5-6 spare chains. Greg

[Wilson Lamb]

Well, letting the smoke out is never a good thing to do. You should touch up the chain every time you fill the tank. More if you suddenly feel it start to cut poorly, like you have hit something.

A touchup like that only takes a couple of minutes and gives you a chance to rest and think about safety. There's no reason to overload the engine or ruin the parts prematurely, or to waste time cutting slowly.

If you damaged the bar by softening it, you'll soon see the saw veering off line when you cut. As soon as that happens, you have to dress the bottom of the bar to make the two sides exactly parallel. If the blade has softened, it will soon wear unevenly and veer again. Good shops can dress the bar pretty well, but if it is bad it will pay to get a new one.

My troll alarm is tinkling on this, but maybe the advice will be useful to some beginners.

ALL CHAINSAW USERS SHOULD BE CAREFUL! Keep the bar away from the legs and keep the tip out of the cut. Be sure you aren't cutting something that can spring up or fall. Take the time to look at each cut and think what will happen when you cut through. Hearing protectors work!

[Jonathan Goodish]

You know, I'm always amazed at how some folks can't help but beat their chest and display their ego every time someone asks a legitimate question.

First of all, I never said anything that indicated that I wasn't being safe with the saw. This was my first cut into oak with this saw, and the high degree of smoke did tip me off that something wasn't right, even though I now realize (with a new chain) that I shouldn't have had to work nearly that hard to cut through even seasoned oak. However, I suspect that I did little more than burn some bar oil off the bar and chain, along with some bar paint.

Secondly, I'm not sure what caused your "troll alarm" to start "tinkling," but I don't appreciate the suggestion that this question is somehow a troll. If you don't feel that a question is worthy of your great body of knowledge, you are always free to not reply.

I will state that I do appreciate thoughtful replies from those who don't have anything to gain by making snide remarks.

JKG

[Juergen Hannappel]

[...]

... speaking of Chainsaws: A (local fool) buys a new chainsaw, impressed by the dealers promise that he can fell 100 trees per day with the saw. Next day he returns furiously to the shop and complains: "A hundred trees? I did not even manage one, and i was all woked out! The saw cuts very poorly." The dealer is astonished, takes the saw to see if anything is wrong, pulls the starter cord, the saw starts up all right. Astonished buyer: "What's that for a strange sound?"

[Jonathan Goodish]

I will admit to being amazed at how much trouble some folks have starting chain saws. The saw that I purchased doesn't have a compression release, and it's almost easier to start than my car. I really don't understand where the problem is for folks, particularly with a new saw.

JKG

[Wilson Lamb]

My troll alarm went off because it's pretty far fetched that someone would smoke the bar on a brand new Husky and not stop to see what was wrong! You obviously have never used a CS seriously, or it wouldn't have happened. I thought my reply was pretty reasonable and the advice good. In my 50 years of being close to chainsaws, I've never seen a smoking bar, so maybe you can cut me a little slack. I HAVE seen a chain or two on backwards, which really takes the cake!

I'm way too old to get an ego rush from chatting on a newsgroup, so maybe you could lighten up a little? If this had happened in the field, you'd have received a good ribbing in person!

Wilson

[TaskMule]

snip

The bar is fine. Just make sure the oiler is working properly, keep chain oil topped up. Sharpen the chain regularly, if it's making square chips it's sharp, if it's making dust it's dull.

[L. M. Rappaport]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 08:58:02 -0500, Jonathan Goodish wrote (with possible editing):

FWIW, I don't think Wilson was doing either. He gave you some damn good advice and you really ought to pay attention.

He never implied you weren't being safe, but even thinking that a chain would stay sharp for three hours indicates you're enough of a beginner, that his safety advice was good. You sharpen a chain every time you fill the tank or at best, in softwood, every other time. Furthermore, the longer you wait, the harder it is to sharpen the chain. If you want a guide look at the leading corner of a cutter. If you're using chisel chain, you will begin to see a rounding over indicating it's dullness; if you're using conventional chain, you will still see it beginning to get dull there - instead of a sharp profile, it will start to get rounded.

...snip

I'll add that you should also find out about logging chaps and that most SAFE loggers wear helmets with both chip screens and hearing protectors. Furthermore, I'll add that cutting with the tip is DEADLY

- it's the reason for more accidents than just about any other mistake, chain brakes notwithstanding. When you cut, always make sure that the chainsaw is offset - to the right if you are righthanded, such that if it kicks neither you nor anyone else is in the path of the direction it will go. Never cut wood on the ground. You'll hit the dirt and dull the chain eventually.

Those of us who have used chainsaws over a long period of time know how really dangerous a saw is. I don't know of a tool which causes more injuries and I've used just about everything in my 64 years. I don't think anyone can overplay the danger involved in using one.

[Andy Dingley]

I'm amazed that someone can use a chainsaw and have smoke pouring off the bar before they realise something is wrong.

[Jonathan Goodish]

Please re-read my original post. I didn't ask if the smoke was normal, I said that I realized that something was wrong and stopped. My question was "What may have been damaged and how would I identify it?"

I have used saws quite a bit in the distant past, but not professionally, so I suspect that doesn't meet your definition of using a saw "seriously." Some folks have been very helpful without the need to make snide remarks. If I was a pro or semi-pro I agree, I would probably have received a well-deserved ribbing.

JKG

[Jonathan Goodish]

Ah, another egotist with lots of unsolicited "advice."

I didn't ask for advice for using the saw, I asked for guidance on one specific situation. Please do not insult my intelligence by assuming that, because I don't know everything there is to know about saws, that I know nothing. Your assumption is dangerous and, in this case, incorrect.

I suspect that the pro loggers still have a thing or two to learn even after many years in the field.

And, for the record, the dull chain still seems sharp when I inspect it... the cutters certainly aren't rounded out or anything obvious like that. I suspect that it may be sharp enough for softwoods, but when I tackled the oak it simply wasn't good enough.

JKG

[Ross Mac]

Pay no attention to this guy...it's his usual routine.... While I am no expert on chainsaws I don't think I ever got one to last 3 hours but then again I was always cutting up fallen Madrone trees and those things are probably hard as your Oak. I would get a couple spare chains and when you finally get tired, haul em' down and get them sharpened....it's prety cheap! Good luck, Ross

[Larry Caldwell]

Ah, another asshole who can't recognize good advice. You are too ignorant to ask the questions you should be asking. Being unwilling to listen makes you stupid.

[George E. Cawthon]

Smoking? And you didn't stop? yep, that is dumb, but you know that.

The chain is unlikely damaged, you just sharpen it, and if it dulls very rapidly you may have ruined the temper, but I can't believe that would happen.

Lack of oil will screw up the bar. From your description, it doesn't sound like it got hurt. You can tell by running a finger very VERY carefully on top of the bar groove (bottom of bar where the pressure is during cutting) and along each side next to the groove. If you feel roughness or metal slivers, you need to draw file it.

Draw filing is fairly simple, put the blade in a vice with the edge you want to file up. Take a small fairly fine flat,file; hold it crosswise to the blade edge and exactly at right angles to the side (wide part), set it down on the edge with a bit of pressure and pull it toward you. Actually you can also push it even if it is called draw filing. The main point is keep the file flat so the blade is filed flat. You won't need to do much filing. Finish by lightly filing the edge with the file surface essentially parallel with the wide part of the blade to remove any fine metal slivers. DO NOT round the edge. If you are really a stickler, you could polish the edge by wrapping 400 grit wet/dry sand paper around the file and running it back and fort on the the blade in the same way you draw filed.

BTW, you should periodically flip the blade as you have done and it is a good thing to lightly draw file the used edge which will up after the blade is flipped.

So what have you learned? don't continue to try to cut with a dull blade, sharpen it.

Good luck.

[rj]

Chain just stretched, a new one will get a little longer after hard use, that's why there's an adjustment on the bar. I use a Dremel chain saw sharpener, doesn't take any time to touch up a saw, but I use a good guide and file for serious sharpening. RJ

[Jonathan Goodish]

Actually, I did stop after it was apparent that the bar and chain were smoking. It wasn't apparent what was happening at first.

I have noticed that a chain that is wearing will go through softer woods without a problem but will not go through harder woods, such as oak. Given the fact that day 2 began with the oak, the distinction between the two wasn't as apparent as it would have been had I moved immediately from softer to harder woods. But, you're right, I now know how to instantly recognize when a chain isn't performing as it should.

JKG

[Jonathan Goodish]

Wow, I'm sure glad that you know me better than I do. Don't know how I manage to get buy without your "good advice."

JKG

[Tim Douglass]

I've smoked a bar or two over the years, so don't feel too bad about it. If there was still oil on the bar and it doesn't appear blue you probably didn't hurt the bar. Your problem seems (as you guessed) to come from a dull chain, so you are more likely to have damaged the chain. At worst, however, it will only mean that the chain won't stay sharp very long. Most of my chain saw work is done in softwood - dry pine or fir for firewood - and I probably sharpen the chain every hour or slightly more often, cutting cherry, ash and oak you aren't going to keep a chain sharp for an hour of steady cutting, let alone two or three. At this point my test would be to sharpen the chain and see if it cuts straight. If the saw wants to cut curves you may be able to sharpen it out, but I'd just toss the chain and try a new one. It is actually pretty amazing how messed up a bar and chain can be and still cut great as long as the chain is sharp.

Tim Douglass

[Mike Marlow]

When you stop to fuel up, is a good time to hit the chain a least a couple of swipes on each cutter. Another good time is right after you hit a sap spout, a rock, a nail, etc... which is guan to be immediately after you finish sharpening it during your fuel stop.