Cedar Shingle roof question

[dynamorph]

I have an unheated porch area and I would like to cover the roof with cedar shingle. I am told that for a roof the shingles should be exposed

7" only, and that they should be installed over slats so that air can flow underneath the shingle.

What's on the roof now is tarpaper over 1x12 wood roof boards. Can I install the cedar shingle directly over 1x12 boards? I would remove the tarpaper, nail the shingles directly to the board with

7" exposure, and afterwards cover the shingles with Thompson's wood sealer.

I have build a shed roof like this 5 years ago and the shingles seem to be holding out fine, so I'm not sure if it is absolutely necessary to have the air space under the roof shingle. The shingles are expensive and I would not want them to fail after 5 years. Thanks,

-- Jeff

[tom]

Jeff wrote: I have an unheated porch area and I would like to cover the roof with cedar shingle. I am told that for a roof the shingles should be exposed

7" only, and that they should be installed over slats so that air can flow underneath the shingle.

What's on the roof now is tarpaper over 1x12 wood roof boards. Can I install the cedar shingle directly over 1x12 boards? I would remove the tarpaper, nail the shingles directly to the board with

7" exposure, and afterwards cover the shingles with Thompson's wood sealer.

I have build a shed roof like this 5 years ago and the shingles seem to be holding out fine, so I'm not sure if it is absolutely necessary to have the air space under the roof shingle. The shingles are expensive and I would not want them to fail after 5 years. Thanks,

You could leave the tarpaper. Matter of fact, I'd install new paper, and I'm not sure about your exposure to the weather of 7 inches. I've always gone with 5 inches to the weather with cedar shingles. The smooth, machine cut type. Tom

[PrecisionMachinisT]

Cedar shakes are installed over plywood with tar paper in between all the time up here in the Pacific Northwest--there's 40 squares of em on our house that so far as I know were installed in 1962 and they're still holding up just fine.

Now, these aren't shingles.....mind you they're shakes--and there is a definite difference...and nobody in his right mind would even consider installing cedar shingles on a roof, at least not around here.

[Duane Bozarth]

PrecisionMachinisT wrote: ...

Don't see why not...the 3/8" "juniors" that I just replaced on the barn had been there over fifty years. The roof was essentially leak-tight until only about the last 10 or so when Dad had decided he was old enough he wasn't going to repair it any longer...

That's for the old system of open decking roof w/ no paper--I used 1/2" shakes and wish had the shingles but they made me a deal on the price and I bit off on it. The shingles lay flatter for this type application. It's rain-tight, but more dry snow blow-in than w/ the shingles.

Anyhow, don't see a reason for blanket negation of roofing shingles--they were probably the most common choice for hundred years or more...

[PrecisionMachinisT]

Perhaps the answer lies simply in the availability of cedar in my area then--if I really wanted to, I could easily knock over a couple trees and split shakes myself onsite.

[Harry Everhart]

My house in PA had cedar shakes on it for 30 years. I put each one on myself when I was a kid. When we took them off in 2003 - except for the weathered color - they were just as good as when I put them on. Also the galvanized nails I used to mount them were still solid. There was lots of evidence of insect life under the shingles - old nests - piles of debris.

Harry

[tom]

PrecisionMachinisT wrote: Now, these aren't shingles.....mind you they're shakes--and there is a definite difference...and nobody in his right mind would even consider installing cedar shingles on a roof, at least not around here.

Where in the OP's message did you read "shakes"? Tom

[tom]

PrecisionMachinisT wrote: Now, these aren't shingles.....mind you they're shakes--and there is a definite difference...and nobody in his right mind would even consider installing cedar shingles on a roof, at least not around here.

Where in the OP's message did you read "shakes"? He recieved an excellent reply in alt.building.construction, however. Tom

[PrecisionMachinisT]

Tom,

Your mistaken, I didn't "read" shakes, and that should have beeen quite clear to anyone except an utter moron of a troll.

I mentioned "shakes" because folks do quite often get the two confused....add that to the that FACT shingles are virtually NEVER used as roofing in my area and it seemed likely he was perhaps one of those confused folks.

Also, around here, "shingles" are indeed sometimes used as siding, but they are virtually ALWAYS applied onto a more or less solid underlayment rather than onto "slats"...while on older barns, homes and what-not having shake roofs, they are usually in fact typically found having been laid onto 1x 4 or 1x 6 slats.

[PrecisionMachinisT]

Tom,

Too cool, man....

Lets all give them folks over there in alt.building.construction a BIG round of applause !!!

[tom]

PrecisionMachinisT wrote: Your (sic) mistaken, I didn't "read" shakes, and that should have beeen quite clear to anyone except an utter moron of a troll.

I'll let that one slide...

I mentioned "shakes" because folks do quite often get the two confused....add that to the that FACT shingles are virtually NEVER used as roofing in my area and it seemed likely he was perhaps one of those confused folks. True, the terms are often mistakenly interchanged by laypersons .

Also, around here, "shingles" are indeed sometimes used as siding, but they are virtually ALWAYS applied onto a more or less solid underlayment rather than onto "slats"...while on older barns, homes and what-not having shake roofs, they are usually in fact typically found having been laid onto

1x 4 or 1x 6 slats.

Yeah, I roofed for 20 years...Does the OP live near you? I'm getting a distinct East coast feel from "Dynamo". Let's ask him! Hey, Dynamo, what are they, shingles or shakes?

[PrecisionMachinisT]

No idea where he lives........also, Ive no idea what a 1 x 12 "roof board" might be, either.

But agreed, lets ask him.......

To Dynamo :

FWIW :

Shakes are still split, and in addition, nowadays they're usually sawn at an angle part way through lengthwise in order to make the tapered end, the "split" exposed area showing clearly on the both the top and underside when they're installed and viewed from the "butt" end.....each piece that's split off from the bolt makes 2 individual shakes....also, the butt end is fairly thick, ranging from 3/4 up to perhaps 1-1/2 inches thickness.

Shingle aren't split at all, but instead they are entirely bandsawn, and saw marks will be visable on all surfaces--but note that there also is a variant that's called a "rake shingle"--this looks similar to a shake, in that the exposed side appears to be split....but on closer investigation what you notice is that the grooves are machine-milled in order to make them appear more like a shake. Also, shingles are thinner than shakes, doubtful there's any shingles on the market that exceed 3/8 inches thickness at the butt end.

[tom]

PrecisionMachinisT wrote: No idea where he lives........also, Ive no idea what a 1 x 12 "roof board" might be, either.

Well, we always called 'em "scabboards", typically a lot of wane left on them, definitely utility grade. Tom

[dynamorph]

hi folks

I live in Vermont. The southern, balmy part of the state. And I plan on using perfection blue 18" SHINGLES on the porch roof, not shakes. The 1 by 12 roof board is simply rough cut

1x12 pine planks from the local mill which I used for roof decking instead of plywood, to achieve a nice look when the roof is viewed from underneath. My plan was to put #30 felt paper and nail the shingles directly over that. I am told though that the shingles need to breathe, and since I don't have spaces between the roof boards, I should really install a product called "Cedar Breather" which is like a plastic mesh which goes right underneath the shingles. This complicates things for me like flashing, and besides the cedar breather product is expensive, so I'd like to skip that step. thanks,

-- dynamorph

[Michael Nickolas]

I'm doing cedar shakes (18" Number 1 red cedar) on my Mansard style roof. Started last weekend. I'm following the guidelines as published by the Cedar Shake and Shingle Bureau in their Roof Construction Manual available at

The manual describes different installation techniques depending on if you are using shakes or shingles. Shakes are described as being put on using an "interleave" of felt paper, which is not recommended for shingles.

Anyway, there is tons of information in the manual and on the website. You could probably get all your questions answered over there!

Michael Nickolas

[tom]

Jeff wrote: hi folks

I live in Vermont. The southern, balmy part of the state. And I plan on using perfection blue 18" SHINGLES on the porch roof, not shakes. The 1 by 12 roof board is simply rough cut

1x12 pine planks from the local mill which I used for roof decking instead of plywood, to achieve a nice look when the roof is viewed from underneath. My plan was to put #30 felt paper and nail the shingles directly over that. I am told though that the shingles need to breathe, and since I don't have spaces between the roof boards, I should really install a product called "Cedar Breather" which is like a plastic mesh which goes right underneath the shingles. This complicates things for me like flashing, and besides the cedar breather product is expensive, so I'd like to skip that step. thanks,

-- dynamorph

You may skip that step. You never mentioned the pitch of the roof. Tom

[Michael Nickolas]

General shingle guidelines can be view here:

It basically says "Although not commonly used, a breather-type underlayment, such as roofing felt, may be applied over either solid or spaced sheathing. Check with your local building official for their preference in your area. Please note that the only solid sheet sheathing tested with shakes and shingles is plywood."

Michael Nickolas