Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?

Page 5 of 9  

..

One must differentiate between the "oxygen" tanks (that contain pure oxygen) and the tanks used in the breathing apparatuses - those contain just compressed air with the usual nitrogen, co2, etc. still in it. The 'grab a tank off the back of a truck" implies tanks for the SCBAs - air, not oxygen.
Harry K
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Medical 99.95% pure Welding 99.99% pure
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Pete C." wrote:

Here's the problem I have with that.
What is the compressed gas supplier doing differently that would result in that very slight (but consistent?) difference between those two products?
If he has two machines or processes for creating the two products (welding O2 and medical O2) and if the welding O2 product is more "pure", then why would he operate two processes instead of simply using a single process (the higher purity process) to create *both* of them? Especially since the welding product is retailed at a lower price to start with.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Some Guy wrote:

They aren't doing anything different, those are the *standards*, not the actual product spec. The reality is that both grades (actually four since there is an "aviator" grade and an "analytical" grade as well) are filled from the same cryo tanks and both exceed the 99.99% welding grade standard. Only the analytical grade gets extra attention to ensure it is 99.999% pure.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Pete C." wrote:

So how is it known that these gasses meet this 99.99% spec?
Are they tested?
Or are they compressed with equipment that is known to NOT inject contaminents during pressurization?
Much of what is speculated here is not with the "purity" of the source gas, or the compentency of the compression equipment to maintain that purity as a tank is being pressurized, but with what *might* happen with these tanks when in the hands of end-users as they reach their empty state prior to being returned to be reused.
Seems that some people here are hung up on that point, and we are all speculating as to just what the gas retailer does behind the scenes with these returned tanks prior to refilling them.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Some Guy wrote:

The source cryo tanks certainly are.

The same equipment is used to fill all "grades" of cylinders.

The gas suppliers are not about to fill 2,000 PSI+ of pure O2 on top of some amount of mystery gas in the "welding" cylinder, especially since those "welding" cylinders are typically used in conjunction with a fuel gas. Putting pure O2 on top of some inadvertently transfilled Acetylene, propylene, propane, etc. would not be a healthy thing for the workers at the gas plant.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Pete C." wrote:

While that sounds logical, just saying it is not going to satisfy others unless more concrete proof is posted to show that the average compressed gas retailer or supplier performs the same processes and proceedures on all types of returned cylinders (evacuation, internal cleaning, etc) prior to refilling.
But I still submit that many of their arguments as to just how these tanks can become contaminated in the first place is implausible.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Actually all that is needed is to know that the FDA and other agencies require certain additional tests to be performed and paperwork filled out before something can be called medical oxygen. Under these laws you cannot knowingly sell non-medical Oxygen for medical purposes and the insurance company sure as heck won't pay for it. If the question is can someone go to the local Ox-shop, tell the person they want welding oxygen, take it home and use it for medical, yeah. Just like you can use medications for off-label uses, but you take on extra risks by doing that.
--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Kurt Ullman wrote:

The chief extra risk is that someone will claim that the welding O2 will kill you for some nebulous reason. I guess the medial O2 atoms are different from the welding O2 atoms.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I would say the extra risk is not quantifiable, at least within the confines of a Usenet group. Anyone interested, here are the FDA regs for med oxygen. The only thing that really stood out initially is the requirement to double purge, and some bookkeeping stuff. http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual /ucm074381.htm
--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

My guess is that there is actually a miniscule amount of difference, but one would have to use sophisticated equipment to discern the difference. And I believe that the miniscule amount of "contaminants", or things other than O2 molecules would not be dangerous to anyone's health unless they were cyanide or plutonium or something equally harmful. Not enough difference to make a difference, basically.
But I would be curious to hear from a test lab. BTW, that was an awesome document. What did it say?
Steve
visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I don't think anyone is saying the O2 is any different, just the possibility of contamination in handling. As I stated, I've handled medical grade, but not welding grade so I'm not going to speculate on the probability. I do know that things like that can (and do) happen even with medical grade as there is a human factor.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Kurt Ullman wrote:

Is it really the case that you are taking on extra risk?
Or is it more the case that you can seek financial compensation if you purchase the medical-labelled product, because the extra cost you shelled out for was essentially an insurance policy - not a garantee or a certainty of getting a better product. ?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

definitely taking on a risk of not knowing exactly if there is a difference.

oxygen as opposed to non-medical oxygen. You are guaranteed that extra steps were taken in the production of the medical oxygen that are required to get that designation. Now whether that is real or not, I guess is open to discussion.
--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I, for one, would bet a dollar to a donut hole that billions of cubic feet of industrial oxygen has been sold as medical oxygen, and charged for accordingly. Particularly among the PC crowd.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Its probably safe to assume anyone on O2 has health issues, so why add extra health risks to anyone who is already ill?????
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

When I was a commercial deep sea diver, the oxygen we used in decompression chambers was the same oxygen that we used for OA cutting. We did not use medical oxygen.
Steve
visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Steve B wrote:

I've seen this as well, just one big rack of "welding" O2 cylinders, grab one for cutting, or grab one for the hyperbaric chamber, all the same.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

regular air firefighters have to be carefully maintained. Oils, etc., can be introduced that cause failure of the seals. There are many things that can go wrong, although that is more of a conern with how the tank is filled.

tracking requirements of medical oxygen is more expensive. These are additional processing steps (at least the testing and certification). The O2 is probably not more expensive, but the medical part is.
--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Kurt Ullman wrote:

Do compressed air suppliers have different compressors for filling different O2 bottles from their bulk LOX source supply?
Hasn't it already been mentioned that even welding O2 gas needs to be just as clean as medical-grade O2?

I'm not convinced that there are any such tests.
Paperwork and barcode scanning? Yes, sure. I can see that. But unless someone posts something indicating that such "testing" is done, then I think it's pure speculation that there is this testing step.

Testing is the same as certification. So what are these additional processing steps beyond testing?
Do you work at a compressed air supply company?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.