Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to supply water heaters.
The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures -- especially in furnace rooms.
This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher temperature, thereby saving energy costs.
This is common sense. Is this technology available now?
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to supply water heaters.
The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures -- especially in furnace rooms.
This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher temperature, thereby saving energy costs.
This is common sense. Is this technology available now?
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to supply water heaters.
The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures -- especially in furnace rooms.
This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher temperature, thereby saving energy costs.
This is common sense. Is this technology available now?
It's called a tempering tank.
It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.
any uninsulated tank will do this, but you wouldnt gain much. it will use the heat of your basement, so you have to heat the space more.
so whats the OPs situation?
hot water not hot enough? having a tankless issue with incoming too cold water? you want endless hot water? or some other more obscure problem?
He said he's interested in "saving energy costs"
It will help cool the house very slightly in the summer, but not by much. If his heating plant is in an outbuilding that is otherwise unoccupied, there may be a little energy cost savings, but I doubt it would offset the installation of the tank.
Solar hot water coils on the roof would be a better place to spend that money. A tempering tank linked to them might make a little sense.
Its called a solar hot water system. You CAN use it to preheat the water before it goes into your electric. On sunny days it would cost little electricity to heat water. On cloudy days it would preheat.
There may not be much sunshine in his basement.
Just get a used electric water heater tank - say 50 gallons. Then remove all the insulation around the tank. Remove the electrical wiring.
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Buy a new water tank which can be pressurized to city water pressure levels. (I think water heater tanks are tested to 300 psi, but actual pressure would be from 30 psi to 100 psi.)
Then connect this tank *before* your existing water heater.
This would be pointless upstairs in the winter. You would be using more house heating to warm the tank. In an unheated basement or furnace room, might reduce expenses? And of course in the summer, it would be a money saver if the city water temperature is colder than your house temperature.
More savings would be with a "heat exchanger" tank and a solar water heating system.
How bout if the tank is buried?
Ackshooly, two tanks:
One buried, in the winter, the other exposed in the house someplace, with a fan perhaps, in the summer.
The Qs are: What is the likely temp differential in both cases, resulting in how much $$ savings, and what will the payback period be? And, initial costs? Proly not cheap. Sheeit, crappy make-up tanks for compressed air are not cheap, and it don't get much simpler than THAT!
I suspect the payback period will be substantial.
Intuitively, I agree with the statement that $$ spent on solar heating are much better spent $$ -- and likely mostly DIY, at that -- poss. ALL diy.
But, I think the premise, at least, of the OPs suggestion is good, if not the practicality/economics.
How does a heat exchanger tank work, in both summer/winter? Configuration?
How about this, just for the summer, apropos of heat exchange:
Take a hundred feet or so of copper tubing, in a helix or some some compact "serpentine" configuration, with a fan, on a drip pan for the condensate, somewhere in the house, which would preheat the water, cool and dehumidify the house?
The problems with this are finding a spot to do this, and then the fact that relatively little water will actually be used, as there is not constant flow. But if the above could be done cheaply enough....
Also, I would do this for both the hot AND cold water -- after all, does anyone really need cold-cold water?
Mebbe the start of a three-line faucet: hot/cold/tepid..... :)
Could have used this when living at 10,000 feet in Colorado mountains. Incoming water temp in winter was 35 F and in summer 38 F. Frost line was 9 feet deep and people had lots of frozen sewer lines that were not deep enough. WW
Is the technology avalaible? Having a rooftop black tank and a mini water heater is standard affair in Mexico and other countries that dont have alot of extra cash. I took an old water heater stripped the insuation and use it to temper incomming water, it goes up by maybe 6f in a day. But you will need a tray under it to drain when it swets in summer if your basement gets humid. Maybe a cheap uninsulated Well tank will work. In summer you will save a bit.
Is the technology avalaible? Having a rooftop black tank and a mini water heater is standard affair in Mexico and other countries that dont have alot of extra cash. I took an old water heater stripped the insuation and use it to temper incomming water, it goes up by maybe 6f in a day. But you will need a tray under it to drain when it swets in summer if your basement gets humid. Maybe a cheap uninsulated Well tank will work. In summer you will save a bit.
Keep in mind water would freeze further up north. For solar water heating systems, they use a closed loop of antifreeze to go to a heat exchanger water heater. Keeps the antifreeze solution in the lines and on the roof separate from the hot water which you might use for cooking, etc.!
heat conduction is largely a matter of exposure area which is why collectors tend to be large and thin
It does make alot of sense --- but mostly if you also heat your house with a wood burning stove as I do... My old electric 40 gal. water heater finally went belly up after about 20 years of service. I could have spent some time and money to fix it but I had been planning to try a tempering tank system for quite some time. This seemed to be the time to try it. I did all the work myself so I saved a bunch on installation cost. I installed a new 40 gal electric water heater and stripped the old heater of insulation and wiring and piped it in ahead of the new water heater. I set it right next to my wood burning stove and put a recirc loop around the top of the stove and smoke stack pipe using the top and bottom element ports of the tempering water tank. It does take awhile of good steady heating of the wood stove to get the temp of the water up in the tempering tank. But by just feeling the copper pipe of the incoming cold water to the tempering tank -- roughly 55 degrees F. -- and the pipe of the tempered water going to the new water heater -- roughly 110 to 120 degrees F.-- we get enough benefit to get a couple loads of clothes washed and a shower or two each morning before the tempered water cools appreciably. I figure we save approximately 150+ kwh / month or about $15+ / month on electricity (6 - 7 months of wood heating in our northern climate). Payback time of approximately a year for materials not counting the cost of the new heater which I needed anyway.. Steve
The heat that goes into the tempering tank is heat that does not go into the living space. There is no such thing as perpetual motion.
In my case, I have alot of wood heat in the basement area of the tempering tank to spare... I don't notice that I use any more wood now than I used before the tempering tank. My basement area is certainly not any cooler. If I do use any more wood than before, it is insignificant.
That doesn't strike me as a very scientific or precise evaluation, especially since your claim is that you have achieved something akin to perpetual motion or cold fusion.
de quoted text -
I suppose I could have really detailed alot of thermodynamic b.s. and made it look more scientific or precise. I guess I'm happy with it and that's all that really counts.
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