AT&T rural phone service

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On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 15:44:43 -0800 (PST), trader_4

Century Link is pushing 10meg down copper and selling the TV/Internet/VOIP deal with existing wire in the ground. They just need a fiber concentrator fairly close. I bet they are thinking about the same deal.
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On Friday, January 9, 2015 at 8:34:57 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

s of old rural landlines for old rural home phones was. He said it all wou ld be abandoned in 5 years (2020). It would be replaced with VOIP over the ir required satellite service (Dish). Cost would start at $19.95/mo without all the current taxes but I'm sure they'll want you to take more services. Sounds pretty shaky if you need to dial 911 in a hurry and coverage is do wn due to weather.
there are cell vcompanies providing local phone service for as low as 10 bu cks a month..........
if you can get any cell service around your home. it can work/\\
with a exterior directional antenna, or cell repeater..
at this point few if any need local phone service.
my great aunt wants it, her verizon phone drop copper failed, after a big f ight they replaced the copper line from pole to street.
around here verizon pushes fios. my 2 years with their crap fios service wa s too much for a lifetime. it was 2 years of hell, before i was able to can cel.
i insited they remove te NID and copper drop, Isaid OK I am putting up a bi g banner across my lawn FIOS sucks is that what you want?
they removed the drop.
their total lack of customer service was astounding.
if anyone is interested i can post my experience...........
it sucked
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On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 4:35:19 AM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:

tus of old rural landlines for old rural home phones was. He said it all w ould be abandoned in 5 years (2020). It would be replaced with VOIP over t heir required satellite service (Dish). Cost would start at $19.95/mo witho ut all the current taxes but I'm sure they'll want you to take more service s. Sounds pretty shaky if you need to dial 911 in a hurry and coverage is down due to weather.

bucks a month..........

I think the problem there is that in those very rural areas, the choice of cell phone carriers is limited, if available at all. I'd wonder how many are going to find one at all, let alone at $10 a month. Also, the $10 a month cell phone plans I've seen, you get maybe 200 mins, if that. With existing copper, you can talk to your friends and family locally all you want and even long distance is cheap. For unlimited voice on cell, it's typically $35 - $40 a month. But that still isn't bad, provided one can get it where the need it. .
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On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 09:57:01 -0800, "Pico Rico"

I have DSL and use about 20Gb/month for $55. The same 20Gb from Verizon via cell towers would be $150. That's why they want to abandon copper lines.
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They didn't retire it. They sold it to Frontier like he said.
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trader_4 wrote:

We have a landline thru the local provider because cell phones don't work down here in The Holler and they are the only option besides satellite for internet - which from what I've heard really really sucks . We have 2 of the pay-as-you-go cell phones for use when we're out and about , but generally only use them for emergency or long distance calls - we don't have LD service on the land line because of the cost .
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Which begs the obvious question: So why does Frontier not provide landline service? What is Frontier doing with all that copper?
nb
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On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 12:36:20 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:

Has anyone said that Frontier isn't still providing landline service on copper? The reason all providers want to get out of copper is that it's a whole separate, dying, costly infrastructure to maintain and probably has lousy profit margins compared to VOIP. The future is VOIP over infrastructure that supports not only that, but cable TV, interent, etc.
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On 1/11/2015 12:36 PM, notbob wrote:

The do. Frontier is now our landline and they use the exiting copper wires. . ATT is only wireless in CT and eventually, the rest of the states.
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On 1/11/2015 11:36 AM, notbob wrote:

They acquire it in order to acquire local monoply rights as the internet provider. They have no interest in supporting the lines. It's cheaper for them to lose customers and pay the fines if/when customers file complaints with the PUC than to perform the necessary maintenance on the lines. If you search Frontier and rural online you'll find tons of complaints about their poor service and decaying infrastructure.
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 10:49:23 -0800 (PST), trader_4

Century Link is doing all of that with copper.
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On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 3:15:50 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

By getting out of copper I mean the typical twisted pair, 22g? stuff, ie the old installed base that POTS runs on and that we're talking about. If Century is doing cable TV, internet and VOIP on copper it must be on coax or similar, not the old POTS stuff.
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 12:30:32 -0800 (PST), trader_4

Nope Regular old CAT 3, 3 pair flooded burial cable. I am not sure how they are getting away with it but I assume it is multiple channels of data on the wire, merged in the DSL modem. I also think they are using 2 pair if you have the TV package. I am getting 10 meg DSL on a single pair tho. The fiber concentrator is about a mile away.
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On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 12:31:01 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I took a look at Century website, it looks like the TV is via DirectTV, ie sat, not copper, no? So, from what I see, looks like they have a higher speed DSL service for the internet and phone part.
IDK what "flooded" cable is. gel filled? But whatever it is, they are using 3 pairs and only going 1 mile at which point you have fiber. Doesn't sound like what is strung up on the poles in rural America for POTS, been there for 50 years, has unknown number of taps, bridges, etc, that we're talking about. It's apparently higher speed DSL, which has all the problems DSL has always had, because it relies on the old, existing copper. I'm sure you're aware of the iffy nature of DSL. I would agree that it can be part of the solution for some areas. Even then, the phone company is going to have to put in new infrastructure, eg the fiber part to get close to the last mile or so, taking out that part of the copper. I also wonder if you'd find most rural places with limited infrastructure have enough pairs to give everybody 3?
Perhaps I should have said "most providers" want to get out of copper. The OP's experience with ATT, apparently the largest local phone company in the USA, being an example. The broader problem and driving force behind it is that in probably 90% of the customer base where they have copper, better competing alternatives are already available, eg cable, fiber. They definitely want to get out of maintaining that copper infrastructure, because it'costly to maintain, customers have been leaving it in droves and it's not competitive at all with the alternatives.
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On 01/12/2015 8:04 AM, trader_4 wrote:
...

...
Yeah, there's no way they're doing any of that over the "old copper"...we still have the ATT (Southwestern) hard line to the house for precisely the reason others noted; it's rural, we have long-run electric service lines from co-op that are subject to outages w/ only one or two meters being affected and it still works often when other doesn't because while Cu, it is almost all buried line now rather than on-pole so ice doesn't take it down.
BUT, those advantages aside, we're _only_ 5 mi or so from the central station in town and the dialup connection could never reach even 56k. W/ a negotiating modem, occasionally might see 44k, but it was rare.
We'll keep the landline as long as it is available for those reasons, because in bad weather the cell isn't all that reliable and while we know do have a wireless 4G connection, it also takes power...
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2015 06:04:47 -0800 (PST), trader_4

Around here Century Link is partnered with Dish but they are starting to offer Prizm which is their name for the bundled service. You give up your Dish service and get it all down the existing copper.

Yes, silicone filled 3 pair cat 3.

They are only using a single pair for POTS and DSL. I understood they hook up another pair if you get TV

With the number of people ditching POTS, "pairs" is not a problem and as I said, I think they only need 2 pair for the bundle. They will need good copper but what they are using here is what was installed in the 1980s when Sprint took over from United Telephone.

It looks like Century Link is trying to squeeze a little more life out of their copper infrastructure and remain a player against comcast. Comcast sucks to badly around here that it will not be a huge problem. CL did have contractors working on all of the tombstones, cleaning up bad splices and generally freshening up the installations before they rolled out Prizm here but it is still the same basic copper. I understand if the telco still has old pulp cable on the poles and you are seeing nitrogen bottles along the road, they are not likely to be able to support DSL but I think most places were upgraded sometime in the last 5 decades.
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On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 10:55:33 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Which isn't the typical installed base of copper POTS that has been there for 50 years in many cases. I'm curious as to when and why they installed that? If they had to bury it, install it, etc, why would any company lay that instead of fiber, coax, that could give 100X the bandwidth?

If you get TV through a twisted pair, where is the channel selection done? Must be at the far end. You couldn't possibly put all the channels that customers want today on one wire, like is done with cable.

There you have the dual edge sword. People are ditching POTS where they can and moving to better solutions. I'll bet in many of those cases, the DSL twisted pair offering isn't as good as the other options that are available, so the freed up lines aren't going to do much good. And in the rural areas we're talking about, like the OP, people aren't ditching POTS, because it's the only local phone service.

I'll bet many rural areas they don't have gel filled twisted pair. We don't have it here in suburban NJ. We also went through this headache back in the late 80s, when ISDN was going to give voice plus another 64Kbit channel for data. The problem was that the transceivers had to deal with the existing installed base of wire and it was a mess. A lot of time was spend trying to profile it, figure out what rates they could support across the installed base of the whole country. The issues were that there were bridge taps, wire gauge changes, etc that all created problems and made transmission more difficult. I was involved in it at that point and I don't recall anyone saying, no problem, we have gel filled twisted pair to work with. The best compromise was 144Kbits per sec, which became the ISDN standard.
Ultimately, ISDN went nowhere. Later, as technology improved, DSL came along, which was basically the same thing, using the existing wire digitally, but at higher rates. Nobody replaced the wire, the whole point was *not* to have to have better wire. So, I'm real skeptical that much of the installed POTS wiring is gel filled. It might be in certain locations, for whatever reason. For example this Century cable is apparently buried. Here in suburban NJ, it's strung on poles. Same polls tha have been there for 50 years. In towns here, it's buried, IDK what actually they have for wire product.

Yes, I'd agree with that assessment. Which is why I modified my statement that *all* providers are getting out of copper to "most". I can see it as a fit in some places, for some people, etc. I don't see it doing much in the way of most providers moving away from copper though.

Apparently not if you look at all the problems with DSL. I couldn't get it from Verizon, here in suburban NJ. And lots of people that do get it, report slow speeds, reliability issues, etc. And I have cable, some nearby towns also have FIOS in addition to cable, so the Verizon copper is dying. And Verizon is seeking to get out of copper POTS infrastructure.
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Of course this might have been FDR's first step at taking over the electric service for the entire country, which he tried to do while running the publicly owned utilities into bankruptcy. Thankfully, we have checks and balances.
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2015 09:03:28 -0800 (PST), trader_4

Sprint did it in the 80s when they bought "dial tone" from United Telephone. It is all underground.,.

I am not sure how they do it but it is done on the box you get from CL. I imagine you are right that they only send the channels you are watching but it supports at least 5 channels at a time. (4 ST boxes and the DVR) They came out and pitched it to me but I wasn't happy with the way the boxes worked so I didn't bite. I actually did sign up but I canceled when I figured out they had lied to me about the DVR.

That is the situation here. I can get Comcast that has internet speeds 2-3x what I get from DSL but it is down so much I was not interested in it. Comcast is also horrible when it comes to fixing your problems.

Verizon is committed to FIOS but you do not have to look hard to find people who hate it. It all gets back to these companies wanting to make money and have the absolute minimum number of employees. I would not be surprised if Verizon spun off all of it's land based communication and went totally wireless, contracting out the fiber backbone to the towers.
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Not that I'm aware.
I have CL w/ DSL. I don't subscribe to TV, but have a Roku that gives me lotsa stuff (netflix, youtube, etc). As far as I'm aware, I'm still on a single twisted pair (POTS). I get an actual 1.2M per second, dwnld.
nb
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