Are there NEC restrictions on circuit location?

[DerbyDad03]

Happy Holidays!

What does the NEC say about running a circuit from a single breaker to "unrelated" locations of a house?

For example, let's say I want to add a receptacle in the 1st floor family room. Let's say the feed to a 2nd floor bedroom runs along the basement ceiling right below where I want to add the receptacle. Is there anything in the NEC that says I can't tap into the 2nd floor circuit to add an outlet in a 1st floor room?

This is really just a curiosity thing, not something I have a need to do. I'm just wondering if it's OK to run a circuit from one breaker to all sorts of different locations in a house.

Thanks!

[RBM]

The answer depends upon the particular circuit, where it's going to and doing currently, and where you want to locate it and for what purpose. For example, you can't tap into a kitchen counter outlet circuit, or a dedicated bathroom outlet circuit, for an outlet in a bedroom

[DerbyDad03]

So, assuming it's not a circuit that needs to be dedicated by code, it's OK for it to run hither and yon throughout the house?

As another example, I have a circuit containing one duplex receptacle in my 1st floor living room that was dedicated for a computer that no longer exists. Can I tap into that run and add a duplex receptacle in my 2nd floor hallway?

[John Grabowski]

So, assuming it's not a circuit that needs to be dedicated by code, it's OK for it to run hither and yon throughout the house?

As another example, I have a circuit containing one duplex receptacle in my 1st floor living room that was dedicated for a computer that no longer exists. Can I tap into that run and add a duplex receptacle in my 2nd floor hallway?

*Yes. Although this is permissible by code I would not get too carried away with spreading outlets all over the house from one existing circuit. I have been in many older homes where after years of adding outlets and lights there is no rhyme nor reason as to the circuiting. It gets very confusing and inconvenient when you need to shut off a bedroom outlet, but it is connected to the bathroom lights. It is also a PITA when it comes to identifying circuits and labeling the circuit breaker panel.

I was recently looking at a job and the homeowner was telling me about one problem he wants corrected. His garage outlet is connected to one kitchen outlet and one den outlet as a result of an addition being put on to the house a few years ago. When he is using a power tool and his wife is cooking the breaker blows and kills the stereo as well.

[terry]

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Gee thanks for the reminder:

There is one (now unused and not GFI'd) outlet in what is now our enclosed garage, but was once an outside convenience outlet in our then open to the world car-port.

Back then (almost 40 years ago) GFIs not heard of!

But that outlet, if memory serves correctly is wired as part of a run of outlets on the far kitchen wall.

Not used; and next time I have the shelving or movable tool chest away from the wall of the garage must connect wiring through, remove the duplex outlet and blank off, probably with a standard metal plate. The garage btw has it own separate correctly circuit breakered outlets and again separate lighting from a pony panel for that area of house.

[bud--]

All true.

The advantage of a circuit going to different areas is that the area then has multiple circuits available. May be useful, for instance, if you have multiple relatively large loads, like a space heater.

It is easy to wind up with more receptacles than are desirable on a circuit.

[hallerb]

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Its far better to have too many circuits on different breakers. this home originally had all second floor lights and outlets on one fuse.

poof when wife plugged in hair dryer:(

lighting circuitsd should be only lights, and multiple circuits.

outlets are better mixed.

so one tripped breaker doesnt leave you in the dark!

[DerbyDad03]

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OK, so now that I know that in a generic sense it's ok to have circuits scattered hither and yon, how about something more specific:

Years ago I ran a circuit from the breaker box to the crawlspace attic. Currently on this circuit are:

- The crawlspace lights (2 fixtures switched in the attic)

- The bathroom exhaust fan

- 1 receptacle in the attic for a cable-TV distribution amplifier

- 1 receptacle in the upstairs hallway, typically used for vacuuming, etc.

I now want to add a second GFI receptacle in the 2nd floor bathroom. This GFI will be used for a radio mounted on a shelf. Tapping into the "new" attic circuit would be a lot easier than tapping into the original-to-the-house circuit that currently powers the bathroom lights, the existing GFI outlet and 3 receptacles in the bedroom next door. In addition, the use of curling irons and blow dryers makes me shy away from adding anymore receptacles to the existing bathroom circuit.

Would it be OK to use the attic circuit for the 2nd GFI in the bathroom?

I'm open to other suggestions for wiring the new GFI except for a dedicated circuit since I am out of space in the breaker box.

Thanks again.

[John Grabowski]

OK, so now that I know that in a generic sense it's ok to have circuits scattered hither and yon, how about something more specific:

Years ago I ran a circuit from the breaker box to the crawlspace attic. Currently on this circuit are:

- The crawlspace lights (2 fixtures switched in the attic)

- The bathroom exhaust fan

- 1 receptacle in the attic for a cable-TV distribution amplifier

- 1 receptacle in the upstairs hallway, typically used for vacuuming, etc.

I now want to add a second GFI receptacle in the 2nd floor bathroom. This GFI will be used for a radio mounted on a shelf. Tapping into the "new" attic circuit would be a lot easier than tapping into the original-to-the-house circuit that currently powers the bathroom lights, the existing GFI outlet and 3 receptacles in the bedroom next door. In addition, the use of curling irons and blow dryers makes me shy away from adding anymore receptacles to the existing bathroom circuit.

Would it be OK to use the attic circuit for the 2nd GFI in the bathroom?

I'm open to other suggestions for wiring the new GFI except for a dedicated circuit since I am out of space in the breaker box.

• I don't recall any usage distinction for bathroom receptacles. Therefore as far as I know your additional bathroom GFI receptacle would need to be on a 20 amp circuit that is dedicated to bathroom use.

[DerbyDad03]

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Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that the NEC would care what I was using the receptacle for, but I was hoping that regardless of its use, it wouldn't need to be dedicated. That's going to be a problem.

I don't want to turn a simple Christmas gift for my daughters into a major electrical upgrade. I'm not about to add a subpanel just so they can listen to their CDs while they put their makeup on.

Maybe I'll put the receptacle in the hallway and drill a hole through the wall for the cord. Kidding!

[hallerb]

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have you considered half width breakers? sounds like your main is full.

quick easy fix, baths should be 20 amps

[DerbyDad03]

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I've used half width breakers in the past, but they always seemed to fail. I was even told by an electrician that they don't last as long, but this was many years ago. I eventually replaced them with full widths, never expecting to fill up the box.

It's a Crouse-Hinds panel. Any suggestions on a decent half width breaker?

[RBM]

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that the NEC would care what I was using the receptacle for, but I was hoping that regardless of its use, it wouldn't need to be dedicated. That's going to be a problem.

I don't want to turn a simple Christmas gift for my daughters into a major electrical upgrade. I'm not about to add a subpanel just so they can listen to their CDs while they put their makeup on.

Maybe I'll put the receptacle in the hallway and drill a hole through the wall for the cord. Kidding!

Current code requires new bathroom outlets to be on 20 amp circuits, but nothing prevents you from adding bathroom outlets to existing circuits, and IMO, it would be safer for you to tap this attic circuit and install a gfci outlet where you need one, than tripping over the cord, trying to use the existing outlet

[DerbyDad03]

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Don't worry, there's no chance a cord to the existing out will be used. The girls aren't even getting the radio until I solve the receptacle issue.

[John Grabowski]

I've used half width breakers in the past, but they always seemed to fail. I was even told by an electrician that they don't last as long, but this was many years ago. I eventually replaced them with full widths, never expecting to fill up the box.

It's a Crouse-Hinds panel. Any suggestions on a decent half width breaker?

• The Crouse-Hinds panel should be able to take a BR type breaker. Siemens (And Murray) and Cutler-Hammer both make this in a twin style. Read the label in the panel to see if it is approved for two breakers on one buss. If the half width breakers that you used in the past had the hook on the side then I am quite familiar with their failure rate. The BR twins will be much better.

[RBM]

The ones with the external hooks on them were real garbage, but all of the new ones Murray (Crouse-Hinds) makes are fine. They do make a few models though, and not all will fit every panel

[John Grabowski]

*Roy there are several condo/townhouse housing developments built by the same builder in NJ. They all have that hook type breaker and I am amazed at the failure rate. Good for my business though. What is really surprising is that the panels are approved for other types of breakers yet they chose to install this type which was hard to find in stock when Crouse-Hinds was in business. I surmised that they got a fantastic deal as it was around the time when Crouse-Hinds and Challenger were getting bought out.

[RBM]

These days, it seems all the condo's in Westchester all use QO panels, but twenty years ago, it seemed like they bought whatever company was in their death throws, FPE, Zinsco, etc. Those external hook breakers look to me like they'd get very little contact with the buss, kinda like Murray's version of Stab-lok

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[DerbyDad03]

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Thanks guys! Yep, I recall a hook, so we must be talking about the same crappy breakers. I'll look into the BR twins.

Damn...now I might have even more wiring to do. There's a few more circuits that I have always wanted to split but the Central Air I had installed a few years back used up the last open spots.

[RBM]

Thanks guys! Yep, I recall a hook, so we must be talking about the same crappy breakers. I'll look into the BR twins.

Damn...now I might have even more wiring to do. There's a few more circuits that I have always wanted to split but the Central Air I had installed a few years back used up the last open spots.

Murray also makes quad half sized breakers. Its a one piece breaker with 4 poles, and comes in a variety of combinations including two sets of double pole with amperage of your choice