Any chemists? Need HCl advice

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So I left out:
2a. Let is stand until stain is gone.

I wondered if anyone would voice that opinion. I just think the whole thing with acid is full of unpredictability. Like, for example, a rag is a rag. It could be cotton, wool, rayon, lots of things. It could have previously been used and not clean. The rag could stand up fine. On the other hand...

That _might_ work. I'm pretty sure most plastic bags will stand up to HCl. (Actually, I have no idea. I see HCl is used to make PVC.)
--
Dan Espen

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wrote:

very well. Poke it with a sharp stick to drain. Salt water makes it heavy enough to sink reliably if you don't leave any air in it.
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I've never dealt with HCl, so I'll ask:
How much HCl added to a toilet filled with water to above the ring would it take to dissolve the rag quickly enough that water runs out and the HCl does not accomplish the goal of cleaning the ring?
Somewhere in there I'm assuming there is a balance between how much "dilluted-by-the-water" HCl is needed to clean the ring and how much "dilluted-by-the-water" HCl it would take to dissolve the rag before the ring work is done.
Perhaps never the twain shall meet.
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Use a five gallon bucket of water, and fill the entire bowl. And let us know what happens. If that doesn't fill the bowl, use another bucket of water.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Steve Barker wrote:

By displacing enough to cover the ring. I figure a peanut butter sized plastic container filled with water will do the trick. I obviously don't want a metal lid in with acid.
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On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:46:34 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

water through the trap, then the tank slowly adds water to fill the bowl. You can USUALLY raise the level at least an inch or two by SLOWLY adding more water. Depends how full your throne is after a flush - some will hold an extra SIX inches of water before the siphon starts. You can fill to the level of the top of the trap safely. On my downstair unit that's 2 inches over a "Long" flush and 6 inches over a "short" one (dual flush)
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On Apr 24, 9:42pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Depends how full your throne is after a

In my world, that's a toilet where the toilet isn't set up to correctly fill after flushing. Of course if you don't fill the bowel completely, then you can add more water. But the toilets I've had both new and old are designed to fill right up to the trap level. Just checked it on both a 30 year old one and a 7 year old one.

Well I guess there are some either designed to work that way or later set up so that they don't fill the bowel completely.
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On 4/24/2012 8:42 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

BS
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Steve Barker
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Your water level does not increase after taking a good leak?
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Mine doesn't. I think it comes down to this. What level does the toilet get refilled to after flushing? On all the toilets I've had they were set up so that the water level came up to the max level in the bowl. If it's at that level, then taking a leak does not increase it. The refilling of the bowl is done by having the float valve supply a small stream of water down the overflow tube. Until recently that stream was generous enough that by the time the tank was full the bowl was more than full and the excess was going down the drain.
I just installed a Fluidmaster replacement float valve where you can now adjust the water flow to the overflow tube via a squeeze clamp. It's part of saving water. The idea being you don't need excess water, you just need enough to fill the bowl completely. They give the procedure for adjusting, which is basicly to note the max water level in the bowl and then adjust the overflow fill rate so that it just fills the bowl to max level at the time when the tank filling ends. So, apparently Fluidmaster thinks a toilet bowl should be full to max level.
So, I understand the traditional fill it all the way up approach. I'd be interested in how exactly one sets the water level, controls it, even knows what it should be in these toilets that get filled to 2" to 6" below the max level. I guess I can see that happening in a commercial toilet with a different flushing mechanism, but not in the typical residential toilet. Not in mine that range from 30 years old to 7 years old.
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Thomas wrote:

When I drain my main vein to make my bladder gladder, MY water level DECREASES.
Can't speak to the level in the toilet.
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On 4/24/2012 3:30 PM, G. Morgan wrote:

be advised, the muratic will etch the porcelain.
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Steve Barker
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G. Morgan wrote:

Thanks for all the responses guys, makes me a lot more confident!
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On 4/24/2012 4:30 PM, G. Morgan wrote:

And as always, wear a face shield when working with acid.
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On 4/24/2012 4:30 PM, G. Morgan wrote:

or clothing. I probably would not use more than half a cup or so wetting the ring and letting it soak.
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First, I hope you tried a toilet brush?
You'd have better results, if you use something like a turkey baster to remove some water from the bowl. Then, use the same turkey baster to gently apply the acid around the top of the bowl, let it run down into the water.
Wait a minute or two, and see if you can scrape the ring off with a toilet brush, or plastic burger flipper.
Flush, to dilute, and move the chemicals down the drain. While the water is flushing, scrub with the plastic flipper, or plastic heavy duty spoon. Scrub with toilet brush.
Discard the plastic scraper.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
My toilet has a ring around it no cleaner will touch. I am seriously thinking about pouring 33% muriatic acid in it.
I plan to raise the water level in the bowl above the ring (glass filled w/H2O), then pour the acid in. Is this a bad idea? Seriously, no troll, I am about to do it. Its a little scary taking the top off the acid when you see white fumes come out.
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On 4/24/2012 4:30 PM, G. Morgan wrote:

Try a green 3M scrubber.
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It all depends on what the ring is. If it is grime and dirt, soap and a brush should get it. If it is rust (not uncommon), then strong HCl (also called muriatic acid) is one possible treatment. Another is oxalic acid solution with a bit of vinegar or HCl. The reasoning is that FeCl3 is nicely soluble in water, but FeCl2 or rather Fe(OH)2 is not. That is the first step in the formation of rust. That means you want to oxidize the Fe2+ to Fe3+ and have chloride ions there to help dissolve the Fe3+ ions. Oxalic acid is an oxidizer, moreover, it is a chelating agent (it sort of envelops each Fe3+ ion, and keeps it in solution). Keep it acid to prevent reduction to Fe2+ and Fe hydroxide and rust formation.
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Han
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If it's rust that's the problem, one of the rust removers available for that purpose at HD, hardware store, etc for $5 works instantly. I just pour it on and the rust stain disappears. However, nothing so far suggests that it's a rust problem. Most stubborn rings I've seen are not rust, but composed of other minerals.
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On Tuesday, April 24, 2012 1:30:03 PM UTC-7, G. Morgan wrote:

Use naval jelly.
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On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:13:08 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

This is what we use to use on our fiberglass boat in the 70's with the seaweed / saltwater scum around the paint line or waterline of the boat. Not sure where we learned it from but it worked well.
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