Air Lifting

[Duane Bozarth]

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Pretty kewl! 22' 11-33/64" instead of 23'! :)

[SteveB]

In the original post, I mentioned "venturiing". Any compressor will move a lot of air if it isn't being compressed, and any old compressor can shoot enough air into a venturi, and then have it rise through a column of water to work. Remember, the top of the column of water will be open, so there will only be the resistance of the water. The trick, to me, would be to keep the diameter of the hose small enough so that the bubbles make a 360 degree contact with the walls of the tube.

One day when I have nothing to do, I shall set this up and let you know how well it works.

Steve

[gfretwell]

at 20 feet.

water 23 feet up, and not much more. It is

Bob, you didn't open the more infornmation link

"Max Suction Lift: 22.96ft."

[Harry K]

at 20 feet.

water 23 feet up, and not much more. It is

Just a note: In a technical listing "lift" regarding pumps is ALWAYS the suction height. Head is what it will lift to. I see the point was clarified below. The pump under discussion is going to deliver all he wants plus some. Probably empty his truck tank in under a minute.

Second note: Max theoretical suction for any pump is 34 ft at sea level dropping as altitude rises. For practical purposes allowing for tolerances, slippage, pipe friction etc. a rule of thumb is 26' unless you are very high. The 23 ft spec is well within reason for this pump.

Harry K

[Michael Daly]

From the ad (my emphasis):

o 1/8 HP 110 Volt motor 2.5 Amps o Polypropylene pump housing will not rust or corrode

0 *****Max Suction Lift: 22.96ft. ****** o 1in. outlet diameter o Pumps up to 1326 GPH/22 GPM o Clog-preventing, vortex-style impeller o Durable epoxy powder-coat finish and stainless steel rotor shaft o 10ft. power cord o Dimensions: 6in.W Bottom x 4in.W Top x 10 1/2in.H Top

22 gallons per minute is not a "little water" - that's twice the volume of water that is handled by a little pump that i use regularly.

It sounds like a pump that might do what the OP wants.

Mike

[m4rcone]

This works *under* water because the water/air mixture is lighter than the surrounding water, and thus rises. *above* water, this won't work.

[m4rcone]

A venturi is different from an airlift. A venturi might work, but you'd sure be using a lot of air for little water pumped.

[SteveB]

Well, dude, it looks like you have it all figured out. Thanks a lot for saving me a lot of time. But then, I do have a lot of time, and an unsatisfied curiosity, so, I think I will just play around with it some time.

IF that's okay with you, that is.

Steve

"Whether you think you can do it or not, you're right."

-Henry Ford-

[Bob]

water 23 feet up, and not much more. It is

You are dead right on that. I stand corrected.

Bob

>

[Goedjn]

How do you plan on filling the water-column in the first place? And why don't you just use THAT method to fill the tank?

And if you're depending on the venturi-effect to get the water into the lift-column, how do you expect to get ENOUGH water in there to seal in the next bubble? All you're going to get is an atomized spray. That will, admittedly, get a nominal amount of water to the top of the exhaust port, just not enough to matter.

[SteveB]

Just got home from the Borg with a pump that will pump up to 60' high. $80.

I will still do the venturi experiment and let everyone know how it works.

Any bets? Predictions? Mind bets?

Steve

[Bob]

You'll quickly give up on it and stick to the pump.

Bob

[Andy Asberry]

Just for grins, I'll make a prediction. The venturi will absolutely work, even if the venturi is above the lower tank water level. A good venturi design will pull it to the top tank.

The air lift (bubble effect) may work depending on the size of tubing. I would guess 1/4" of less. Seems the air would have to be introduced below the water level. Probably would be more efficient with controlled timing of the bubble release.

Any timetable on project completion?

[Goedjn]

Draw a picture of what you're planning to hook up where, and I'll predict the results..

[SteveB]

Oh, I know. I just think that a venturi configured right, and with approximately 40psi input can move a lot of water fast. I may use the principle to move water for a stream or waterfall on my property.

As with every experiment, you have an idea, then try to see if it was right or wrong.

In metalworking, I have had MANY (repeat) MANY projects that didn't work.

That's the beauty of it. You can have an idea, sweat over it, try it, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. The good thing is that you aren't paying someone else by the hour to do all the ball scratching and nosepicking. Of course, you will have SOME time in it, and some co$t$, but if you are lucky, you don't get soaked too bad.

And then, there are the times when the thing works darn good. And then there are times when it winds up in the "what is this" pile behind the garage.

I once had someone tell me that welders are problem solvers. People come to them with problems, and they reason them out and make a solution. That I was getting paid to figure out solutions rather than weld. Hell, you can teach a monkey to wirefeed.

I don't know how many times I have sat bolt upright in bed at 2 AM, and said, "Eureka!" when faced with a problem. Or been on the throne when the ray of light hit my dark side. It comes when you aren't trying to find it.

So, airlifting isn't about moving water or whether or not it will work.

It's all about attitude.

And, as a welder, I have been accused of having an attitude more than once.

Of course, nothing was ever proven in court.

Anyone can make a gate. Fix a motor mount. Make something out of metal. It's when you figure things out and make them work that differentiates between the mechanics and the talented. Negative or positive.

YMMV.

Steve

[Bob]

It may work. But it will be very inefficient. The pump will use way less energy for the water it moves. Air compressors are not very efficient devices for moving energy.

I use my air compressor with a sandblast nozzle to spray trees. It atomizes the water well. It takes about 20 minutes of spraying to empty a bucket of water. through a 6 foot 3/8" I.D. hose.

Bob

[gfretwell]

for the water it moves. Air compressors

water well. It takes about 20 minutes of

The only way I see an air compressor working is if the pickup tube was in the bottom on the truck tank and the tank was sealed. At about 9 PSI you would have 20 feet of head. At that point you just have a garden "tank sprayer". As long as the liquid in the tank is at ambient air pressure you are not going to bubble anything up the pipe very far.

[Harry K]

Wrong. The tube starts out empty. Tube goes to bottom of tank into a "bell" with the air inserted under it. Not a big trick.

Harry K

[Goedjn]

Ok, when YOU use the word "venturi", what do you mean?

[SteveB]

Neither. As I said, one poster brought out that the water will become contaminated with compressor oil, making it useless. So I got a pump that will do 40' of head.

I will still play with the venturi concept and see how it works. Last night, I had the idea of simply inserting a trocar into a garden hose to get the desired configuration and effect. The water would be injected under pressure with the tip pointed up.

Now, to find a trocar, or might have to make one.

STeve