A fluorescent bulb; replacing an incandescent.

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I have been using compact fluorescent bulbs for over 16 years. I've found that many of the "off-brand" bulbs are junky: I've experienced premature burnout, whining bulbs (maddening, like a mosquito), dreadful light color (someone mentioned the Ikea bulbs), and poor light output. Most will not deliver the long life that the claims imply. They tend to fail due to inabilty to dissipate heat (electronics in sealed bases) and the bulbs just wear out. These days, I buy them really cheap because of the failure/high cost issue. With rebates, I've even gotten them for less than a buck each.
My solution lately is to buy the Feit brand in bulk at Costco. I pay more of a Chinese price for a Chinese lightbulb. When more than half the bulbs are shot, I take the entire package back to Costco for a refund. That's their policy where I live for multiple items in one package. This is how I deal with premature bulb failures nowadays.
Most of the recent bulbs are more efficient than the former ones. Those came on full. The new ones come up to full brightness slowly, giving full candelpowers in about one or two minutes. I've used them successfully in outdoor fixtures, left on continuously. Dampness doesn't seem to bother them since they're moderately-well sealed (but there's a price for this). I can't say how they work in really cold weather because it almost never gets down to freezing here.
As far as RFI goes, I don't listen to AM radio, so I can't comment. On FM and TV, there's little or no interfereance from the bulbs I've used. You may have noticed the FCC statement on many products in recent years, "...must accept interference." Whatever was the person who wrote those words smoking? What was the supervisor smoking?
We're still paying Enronesque electric rates here in California. Our Administration has not seen fit, so far, to get our money back for us. I wonder why. When the electric rates tripled in San Diego, people raced to buy the compact fluorescent bulbs: I saw them everywhere.
Richard

fluorescent (screw

to try one in the

seen them in

as much light as

work best when

on all night it

understand is basically a

is served from a

of the house.

the current

attractive!
the light out put

incandescent. The colour of

fixtures unless

that it caused

50 feet away

circuit from the

sufficient to interfere

tuned exactly to a

built in antenna was

frequencies particularly in

900 kilohertz.

it was labeled

Association)".
an identical

randomly, in a batch,

noticeable interference

avoid some

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Bought 4 cases of 6 "R-30" at the Borg for 5.00 a case minus a 2.00 utility rebate. (These bulbe were on closeout.) I replaced some hi-hat bulbs with no RF inteference at all, however, you have to change the dimmer back to a switch CFs don't work on dimmers even when only used at full power.
Next I'm buying (seen at Cosco as well) a few packs of 3 Par40 replacements but they're around 15.00 for 3 bulbs. Seen them in use on a home near me and they look just as bright as a 150 watt flood.
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not going to

state from the

the state

would turn up

to a thing

My Dear Corny,
He ain't my pal. I didn't vote for him. I voted for the other guy. Arnold sounds like a nice, sincere, idealistic, and confused guy who now has to act in an unfamiliar role and doesn't know his lines. Unfortunately, Arnold has been hanging around with suspect individuals. For example, Pete Wilson (who engineered the whole deregulated power mess in the first place) and our very own personal bad-guy, Kenneth Lay. But this is getting off topic, isn't it:
"Buy Tubes Y'all. Use More Electricity!"
Richard
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cornytheclown wrote:

Yes, The Bush Justice Dept. had worked out a deal where the criminals would pay 10 % of the amount they stole back to California, and the rest would be forgiven. This covered their butts as they could say the claim was "settled". But Gov. Davis stood firmly in the way refusing to sign, so Ahhhhnold was picked as a suitable replacement. First thing he did as governator practically was sign the 10% settlement.
I'm sure you Bushites can come up with some reason why that's actually a good thing, or just the way the cookie crumbles.
John H.
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That's the governator.
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On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:16:27 GMT, "Richard Steinfeld"

I have these exclusively in my home, and have found that the life of these things has almost nothing to do with the frequency of usage; instead it depends almost solely on the design of the fixture the bulbs are used in. If the BASE of the fixture is wide open (you can easily touch the base of the bulb while it's screwed into the socket), the bulbs seem to last a long time. If the base is at all enlcosed or covered, the life is a lot shorter. Also, I've noticed that bulbs hanging straight down tend to have a longer life than those that are mounted at a 45 or 90 degree angle.
The difference in life is quite dramatic. The bulbs that are used in my daughter's bedroom (three of them in a 90 degree mounted enclosed decorative fixture) all burned out in 6 to 9 months. Three of them used in an enclosed 45 degree angled ceiling fan fixture in our living room failed within a year. The bulbs in our bathroom routinely fail also (enclosed base, 90 degree mounted).
On the other hand, NONE of the bulbs in my son's bedroom (six of them in track lighting fixtures hanging almost straight down) have failed in almost two years of constant use. Neither has any the of bulbs in our kitchen (one standing straight up, the other hanging straight down, both fixtures with wide open bases. Ditto with the units in our garage (hanging straight down, wide open bases).
So, it depends on the design of the fixtures in your house. I continue to use 'em everywhere because I can't argue with the savings.

I just toss 'em. Bought in bulk with a rebate, they're about twice as expensive as an incandescent. With the reduced energy costs over the life of the bulb, it comes out about even on the ones with a shortened life.

I would recommend NOT to use the regular bulbs in outdoor fixtures, unless they are very well enclosed. The FEIT bulbs you mentioned even admonish not to do this in text written right on the base of the bulb. The integrity of the sealed base to water is not absolute, and I have seen those bulbs fizzle out in a puff of smoke when used outdoors. BEWARE!
If you need outdoor CF bulbs, they are available. I'm using several flood replacements outdoors as we speak, and they seem to work very well, with a long life so far (more than a year now).

It's hit or miss, even with the same bulbs on different days. Sometimes there AM interference, sometimes not. These bulbs use an electronic ballast so some AM interference is almost mandatory.

Those words are FCC-speak for "we're too damn lazy to force manufacturers of this noisy crap to change their ways, so YOU deal with it."
Back in the old days, this "must accept interference" tag was only allowed to be used on equipment that was intended to be used in office buildings. Now it has slowly but surely creeped into devices used in the home. Funny how that happens.......

(Soapbox ON)
It's simple really. If Bush actually did anything to right this wrong, it would upset the energy buddies in Texas that have him firmly in their pockets. Actually getting the money back for us that Enron ripped from us would require a couple more testicles than Mr. Bush has, so it won't happen.
One of many reason I won't be voting for our incumbent President in November.

It wouldn't surprise me....... San Diego was the first sign that energy deregulation in California was going to be a costly fiasco. That the politicians did nothing about it at that time, when it was still possible to reverse gears, speaks volumes about the leadership qualities and priorities of our folks in Sacramento and Washington.
(Soapbox OFF)
-Scott

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE AT THE EMAIL ADDRESS ABOVE! Instead, go to the following web page to get my real email address: http://member.newsguy.com/~polezi/scottsaddy.htm (This has been done because I am sick of SPAMMERS making my email unusable)
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wrote:

the life of

of usage;

fixture the

(you can

the socket),

enlcosed or

that bulbs

those that are

are used in

mounted enclosed

of them

in our living

routinely fail

(six of them

have failed

of bulbs in

straight
units in our

house. I continue

savings.
This seems to prove the point: we're talking about heat dissipation, plain and simple. Watch those bases turn dark brown!

fixtures,
mentioned even

of the bulb.

and I have

outdoors.
using several

work very

I'm getting long life from various of these in one outdoor fixture. The bulb is mounted upside down and the fixture is sheltered at the top, open at the bottom. I wouldn't reverse this setup, however: poof!, I'm sure.

can't
days.
bulbs use an

mandatory.
I'd think so. There's just nothing on AM radio for me any more. Just one yelling extremist talk show host after another. They all sound the same. I'm bored.

accept
force
YOU deal

Yeah. But such language! I mean, "must" accept interference. Therefore, the product may not reject the interference? Someone wrote those words. Someone else approved those words. Is anyone minding the store?

to
this wrong,

firmly in

Enron
Mr. Bush

President in

Thank you. I thought I'd leave if for others to fill in the blanks.

compact
sign that

fiasco.
when it was

leadership
Washington.
Yes. I agree. I saw it coming too. It was the first. Admittedly, I don't think that we got it so badly here in Northern California. It must have been one hell of a shock for the people in the San Diego area when their power costs tripled: Whomp!!!
Manditory radio content: Use of vacuum tubes is known to cause problems to your (financial) health. In California, I mean.
Richard
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Terry who originally posted as follows;

(screw
the
Terry now says; Thank you for the many replies, comments and advice. I have to agree with most of them. Especially "The you get what you pay for"! I do suspect that this was an 'el cheapo' imported brand of lamp and recommendations to use a 'good' brand suitable for North American, especially Canadian (low temperature etc.) conditions are well taken. A lot of useful and knowledgeable information and a touch of humour in many of the replies; btw I did think it was worthwhile to mention the RFI factor as well. To the many posters who have replied and shared their information, thank you. Terry. PS. Someone asked about our electricity cost; here it averages 8.6 cents Canadian or roughly 6.7 cents US (and 3.8 pence UK?) per kilowatt hour. This is based on the total (basic monthly account charge, kilowatt hour consumption at 6.77 cents/kw.hr Can. and all sales taxes) divided by number of kilowatts, for a typical winter month. All electric house btw.
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Geez... we're double that...
At any rate, Home Depot is odd in that a package with 1 bulb could be 8.99, while the 4-pack of the SAME bulb is 9.99.
Keep you eyes peeled.
Cosco has a 5-pack and now, also the 3 or 4 packs of the 100 watt equivilant - which aren't as common as the 60 or 75 watt equivilant bulbs. Cheaper than the Depot.
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I replaced about half our incandescant bulbs with compact flourescents, about a year ago. We use everything from 10W for bedside reading lights to 23W in the laundry room. Some are left on almost continuously, and others get switched on and off a dozen times in a day. We have yet to have one burn out.
I do use a compact flourescent in in our exterior light, only in summer, and only in a weather protected, but open fixture. During the winter, that bulb gets replaced by a standard incandescant bulb. The CF has the additional benefit of not attracting bugs.
We undertook a large number of energy conservation measures, at the time we switched over our lighting, so it's difficult to quantify the effect of switching bulbs, alone, but I can tell you we have cut our power consumption almost in half.
Rob
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040117 1236 - Specter wrote:

I used to use a 40 watt incandescant bulb in the vent hood over the stove and had problems with burnout often, like about every couple of months. I replaced it finally with one of those fluorescent lamps and it is a brighter light and runs cooler drawing less wattage. That was a couple of years ago and have had no problems with it.
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averages 8.6 cents

kilowatt hour. This

kilowatt hour

divided by number

house btw.

I'm sobbing into my beer right now. My electric rate is tiered: the more you use, the more you pay. I'm fairly frugal, although we've got no gas heat to two bedrooms and use electric heaters for both of them. The highest tier I'm paying is 45 cents US per KWH. For this, I have Pete Wilson and Geo W. Bush to thank, and soon, the Arnold (who wants even more of the deregulation fiasco that brought me this 45 cent rate).
Richard
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Here in AZ, I live in a housing development where each house has two outside light fixtures that are on all the time - they are not on switches. Makes the area inviting, don'cha know, to have each house lighted at night, and I kind of agree. Some homeowners remove the bulbs or simply let them burn out, but then the HOA comes after you. Since I am here only 6 months of the year, but the lights burn all 12 months, I put small flourescents in both fixtures. I learned a few things.
1. You're right - they are too stubby to fit in the standard outdoor fixtures. But most any hardware store, Wal-Mart, etc, has short "socket extenders" that get you past this. 2. Color doesn't matter in an outside light, IMHO. You're looking for illumination, not artwork. 3. Brightness is hard to judge by eyeball. Incandescents look brighter because they are a point source of light, whereas fluorescents are an extended source. However, I found that if I put a 60-watt-equivalent fluorescent in one fixture and a 60-watt incandescent in the other, waited until dark, and then stepped back from the house and out into the street, they appeared to wash an equal amount of light down the wall and into the yard. 4. UL/CSA and RFI don't have any connection with each other. UL/CSA are safety organizations. 5. It doesn't get cold enough here to cause light output to drop - but I tried the same thing in Maine, and sure enough, the lamps barely light when the temp dips below about 50F.
Bill Jeffrey ============================== Terry wrote:

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says...

If you have good-quality compact fluorescents, that are rated for low temperatures (it'll say so on the package), then below-freezing temperatures aren't too big of a problem.
I have three CF bulbs in outdoor fixtures on my house, and temperatures here can get to -30C in the winter. The bulbs still light, although they take a few minutes to get up to full brightness when it's really cold out.
Regards,
George Wenzel
--
George Wenzel, B.A. (Criminology)
E-mail: snipped-for-privacy@recursor.invalid
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Do they make "daylight spectrum" CF bulbs? I haven't noticed any when out shopping.
A couple of years ago I replaced about 120 of the "standard" 40W foor foot flourescents in our business' offices with the "daylight spectrum" kind and everyone loved them and said that they felt noticably "better" than they did when working under the light of the "regular ones".
They cost about double what the standard color ones did at HD, but I'm glad we put them in, and we haven't had one burn out yet, so they must be pretty well made.
Jeff
--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone to
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Yup -
See, for example
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product.php?product517 https://www.1000bulbs.com/category.php?category=2
Bill Jeffrey ===============Jeff Wisnia wrote:

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I saw some yesterday, for the first time, at the borg. They weren't there a few weeks ago. They've had the 4' T12s and such for a while, but this's the first time I've seen daylight spectrum in CFL. I didn't notice the price compared to regular.
I still prefer full spectrum to daylight spectrum. In the tubes, the daylight are twice the price of the regular (warm or cool white), while the full spectrum were twice as much again. I've yet to see full spectrum CFLs locally, only on the web. The daylight are bright with a bluish tinge (not much different to me than cool white), while the full spectrum are more of a pure white.
Mike
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"standard" 40W foor foot

spectrum" kind and

"better" than they did

HD, but I'm glad we

must be pretty well

This has been an interesting thread. I've learned a few things. From my experience, I'm assuming that the newest bulbs I've used have a higher operating temperature then the last round. They are a bit more efficient, too. I read figures improved 30 percent.
Regarding color spectrum: I tried a pair of Philips "daylight" tubes in the kitchen. The performance was dismal; one burned out in short order. Among compact fluorescents, I was most satisfied with the color spectrum of the first round of consumer bulbs from Lights of America (separate bases and bulbs). The newer ones are more efficient, but I think some of the color balance is sacrificed. Not a lot, just enough to be visible. I can live with them.
One important difference between the "look and feel" of any fluorescent vs. an incandescent bulb: a traditional incandescent bulb has a continuous spectrum like daylight. Seen on comparitive graphs, the incandescent is tilted toward yellow vs. daylight: both graphs are nice and smooth. This is why it is a simple matter to correct for the color balance between daylight and tungsten photographic films using standard filters such as the 85b which converts professional motion picture negative film from tungsten bulbs to daylight: this is the standard filter of the motion picture industry and you see the beautiful results in outdoor shots of all comercial movies.
Fluorescent output is a whole 'nother matter. The color spectrum is jagged, discontinuous. One can come somewhat close to a smooth graph in the aggragate (note: aggragate, averaged from jagged peaks). In reality, fluorescents have gaps in the spectrum: color frequencies that the bulbs don't put out at all! Therefore, it is not possible to perfectly compensate for this jaggedness with filtration. Such filters as the FLB and FLD come close, but there's no perfection here. Even the "daylight" bulbs don't quite match up. If you want to look at these graphs yourself, the best place I've found is professional motion picture technical manuals. The bulb manufacturers don't really give you the full picture.
Richard
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On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:18:27 -0500 Jeff Wisnia

A mix of warm white and cool white bulbs will also help, at much less cost. I like about 2/3 cool white to 1/3 warm white. I've seen rooms 100% warm white and found them to be much too rosy. The women who worked there claimed to like it, however.
- ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA -----------------------------------------------
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