220 Volt Plugs

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Nate Nagel wrote:

If he put a 50A plug on the cordset to the A/C it would be fine.

The "Edison circuit" thing only relates to shared neutrals.
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On 11/03/2013 06:33 PM, Pete C. wrote:

No it wouldn't because 14 AWG is only rated for a 15A branch circuit.

That's not the one I was thinking of, there is (was?) something about being allowed to have two different cooking appliances on the same high-amperage range circuit and being allowed to use smaller wire to connect the lower draw appliance of the two. I'm a little furry on the details having read it once years ago and not had to worry about it again.
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Nate Nagel wrote:

The cord is rated for the device it's on, not for the circuit it's plugged into.

I don't recall that. The only ones I recall for permanent wiring are the welder duty cycle adjustment, and taps feeding transformers.
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On Monday, November 4, 2013 9:04:25 AM UTC-5, Pete C. wrote:

I think one key point here is that the "device", ie appliance is listed with the cord and plug it came with. Can you change that cord to a heavier gauage, I think so. Can you change the 15 amp plug it came with to a 30 amp? What gfre provided would seem to suggest the answer is no:
(1) Supply Cord of Listed Appliance or Luminaire. Where flexible cord or tinsel cord is approved for and used with a specific listed appliance or luminaire, it shall be considered to be protected when applied within the appliance or luminaire listing requirements. For the purposes of this section, a luminaire may be either portable or permanent.
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wrote:

Yup 210.19(A)(3)ex1
Exception No. 1: Conductors tapped from a 50-ampere branch circuit supplying electric ranges, wall-mounted electric ovens, and counter-mounted electric cooking units shall have an ampacity of not less than 20 amperes and shall be sufficient for the load to be served. These tap conductors include any conductors that are a part of the leads supplied with the appliance that are smaller than the branch-circuit conductors. The taps shall not be longer than necessary for servicing the appliance.
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wrote:

Wrong! Code doesn't cover your "18ga zip cord"; beyond its scope. The outlet is part of the "wiring". It *is* covered by the fire code.
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

If I put a 50A plug on the cordset to my A/C and plug it into that 50A circuit it's entirely to code. The permanent wiring and receptacle are appropriately protected by their 50A breaker, and the cordset to my A/C is protected by it's internal circuit breaker. There is no code requirement that an appliance must utilize the full Ampacity of the circuit it's plugged into.
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On Sunday, November 3, 2013 6:35:56 PM UTC-5, Pete C. wrote:

I'm not so sure about that. Is it in fact code compliant to change the plug, the cord, etc on a UL listed appliance to something larger than it was supplied with? If it comes with a 20A plug/cord, you can change it to 50A?
The permanent wiring and receptacle are

I think the issue here are differing interpretations of what Stormin posted, which wasn't clear:
"I tapped a wire off their 50 amp range socket, to power the wall AC which I put in the window. Ran a 14-2 WG wire from his range socket, and put the necessary socket on the end of that. "
I and I think most others took that to mean that he tapped into the wiring at the range receptacle, (ie wire nuts, etc) and ran 14-2 to the AC, putting a socket of some kind on the end of that. In that case, it's clearly a code violation because his new wiring is part of the circuit wiring protected by a 50A breaker.
I think your interpretation is that he made a crude extension cord out of 14-2 with a plug on one end, socket on the other end. Obvious problem with that though is you can't then plug in the range and the AC at the same time. Plus from a code standpoint, 14-2 is not rated for use as an extension cord.
Perhaps Stormin will clarify.
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On 11/4/2013 7:44 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I opened the range socket, (power off). I loosened the clamps that held the aluminum range wire, and loosed the romex connector. Slipped the 14-2WG in through the romex connector. Stripped the ends, put them in with the aluminum wire. Ran the 14 to a box, which I screwed to the baseboard. Or, more likely left the box loose on the floor. This was 20 plus years ago, the details are a bit faded in my memory. Plug the wall AC into the outlet box. Put the cover back on the range socket, plug the range back in.
I'm an outlaw. And a couple folks appreciated having AC that killer hot summer. And you can't prove a thing. ;)
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On Monday, November 4, 2013 8:04:12 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

That's what I thought you meant. I think everyone here, including you, agrees that is a code violation. Somehow this got morphed into changing cords, going to a larger ampacity plug on the AC, is code compliant or not.
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On 11/4/2013 8:21 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Any way to convince your news reader to stop inserting lines between my text?
I'm sure that my wire off the range socket is code violation. Fortunately, no damage was done, and it brought comfort to good people.
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On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 08:39:26 -0500, Stormin Mormon

No, he's just as pig-headed about using Google as you were about top-posting.

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On Monday, November 4, 2013 1:14:30 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

You should be the last one to talk about anyone being "pig-headed". Google, not being client based, offers me the option of using it anywhere. But I'm sure that's beyond your pay grade.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yep, an outlaw for not putting a plug on the cord.
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On 11/4/2013 9:05 AM, Pete C. wrote:

This way, they could use the range and the AC at the same time.
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Probably several code violations. The 14 wire on the 50A breaker for one. Slipping and mixing the copper and aluminum wire is probably another one. When dealing with the aluminum wire it is difficult enough to keep from burning down a house. I lived in a house that had the aluminum wiring and I did tighten the wires at the fuse box several times. A house down the street that was built at the same time (aound 1965) did burn down and the cause was stated to be wiring in and around the fuse box.
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On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 10:06:10 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"

Copper and aluminum isn't a problem as long as listed CU-AL connections are used between. Aluminum caused all sorts of grief but it was eventually sorted out. Some of the problems were labor quality (AL is less forgiving) and others were metallurgy. AL us still widely used for large appliances (clothes dryers and ranges) with very few issues.
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Hmmm, My previous house built in the mid-70s during Cu hortage had all Al wiring, never had any trouble and still the house is there(did not burn down, LOL!) What?! is there any one whose knowledge is based on Google? How did (s)he lived B4 the days of I'net? IMO, intelligence does not come from Google.
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wrote:

Ant there is aluminum wiring, and there is aluminum wiring. The early aluminum was hard and fragile. The later stuff is softer and more ductile - and a lot tougher.
As for the connections - CU-AL USED to be the accepted standard. CU-AL devices are no longer accepted. The new standard for aluminum wiring devices is coalr or co-alr
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On 11/4/2013 12:22 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Extensive testing of aluminum connections for the CPSC found that the only listed wirenut for aluminum (Ideal 65) can fail even if installed using the manufacturer's instructions.

Yes, the problems were only for 15 and 20A branch circuits.
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