15A outlets on 20A circuits

Page 3 of 5  


That table is preceeded by the statement, which I provided and is shown above, that says it applies to circuits with TWO or more receptacles. If they wanted it to apply to ALL receptacles, including single outlet ones, they could have simply omitted the word TWO, but they did not. And the section right before it clearly covers the case of a SINGLE receptacle and allows a receptacle with a current rating equal to or greater than the circuit to be used.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but that is what it says and it allows using a single 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

.com...
== You'd better re-read the code book. There is a difference with "split" receptacles in wiring procedure. If you plug two appliances and each are drawing 15 amp into an unsplit duplex receptacle which is serviced by one duplex cable, you will blow the circuit breaker. If the split receptacle is serviced by two different hot leads each appliance will draw 15 amp and the load is 15 amp on each HALF of the receptacle. Most code books that I've seen diagram how to do kitchen circuits as most "counter" circuits require 20 amp breakers.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

ps.com...
The only code book that counts is the NEC, and it doesn't show diagrams of how to do kitchen circuits or anything else for that matter.
As for the question about whether a 15 amp duplex receptacle can handle two seperate loads that combined are more than 15amps, I'd say the answer is yes. Clearly the NEC allows using multiple 15 amp duplex outlets on a 20 amp circuit. If any duplex outlet could not safely handle 16, 17..., 20 amps combined, there would be a big safety issue.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Bob wrote:

This is from memory and I've not kept up w/ changes (but I'd be surprised if this has changed)...
15A branch circuits. NEC has no limits on number of outlets/circuit; commonsense prevails. Receptacles may be no more than 15A rated. Any one cord-and-plug appliance may exceed 12A. If the circuit also supplies any load fastened in place, that load may not exceed 7-1/2A.
20A branch circuits. Receptacles may be either 15A or 20A. No single cord-and-plug appliance may exceed 16A. If the circuit also supplies any load(s) fastened in place, the total load may not exceed 10A.
--
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
dpb wrote:

Minor typo.

The 12 and 16A limits on 15 and 20A circuits is in 210.21-B-2. A while ago there were several proposals written to change this section. One of the common arguments is that UL allows a 15A plug on devices that draw over 12A (maybe a hair dryer). The same is probably true for 20A plugs. The code panel response was 'we're right, UL is wrong'. (Another of the arguments was that the NEC does not normally make unenforceable restrictions about what happens after the inspector leaves.)
I am confident everyone will watch what they plug in to insure they don't use a UL listed product whose use does not conform to the NEC.
--
bud--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 05:56:36 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I agree that is a stupid rule......
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

This is another example of things in the code that don't seem to make any sense, at least to me. If one can install multiple 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit, why the restriction on installing just one?
And while we're at it, the code also says you can use a 20 amp single outlet on a 15 amp circuit, but you can't install multiple 20's on a 15 amp circuit.
Why the big distinction between single versus multiple outlets?
The feed through of a 15 amp outlet is 20 amps. You cannot install a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit Nec 210.21 B3
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

...
NEC 210.21(B)(3) starts off by saying that section only applies to circuits with more than one outlet. We are talking about a SINGLE outlet. In which case, the following section applies:
" 210.21 Outlet Devices. (B) Receptacles. (1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit."
Since the 20 amp outlet has a rating greater than the 15 amp circuit, it may be used. Now, I would agree it doesn't make much, but that is what is says, and hence was my point.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

NEC 210.21(B)(3) starts off by saying that section only applies to circuits with more than one outlet. We are talking about a SINGLE outlet. In which case, the following section applies:
" 210.21 Outlet Devices. (B) Receptacles. (1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit."
Since the 20 amp outlet has a rating greater than the 15 amp circuit, it may be used. Now, I would agree it doesn't make much, but that is what is says, and hence was my point.
That text is only part of the article, the table clarifies the rest. There is no ambiguity in the table.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

om...
I agree there is no abiguity in the table. The problem is the table applies to circuits with two or more receptacles and we are talking about a circuit with just one.
210.21 (B) (3) Receptacle Ratings. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying TWO OR MORE receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21 (B) (3)....
Here;s the section that covers the single receptacle:
21210.21 (B) (1) Single receptacle on an individual branch circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

...
Again, here's what the section you are referring to says. From 2008 NEC,
210.21 (B) (3) Receptacle Ratings. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying TWO OR MORE receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21 (B) (3)....
The added emphasis is mine. We are talking about a SINGLE receptacle, so that section and it's table do not apply. Section 210.21 (B) (1), which preceeds it, specifically addresses the case of a single receptacle.
21210.21 (B) (1) Single receptacle on an individual branch circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.
Do you not agree that a single 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit meets that requirement? Note that I'm not saying it makes sense to me, but it's clearly what it says.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Again, here's what the section you are referring to says. From 2008 NEC,
210.21 (B) (3) Receptacle Ratings. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying TWO OR MORE receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21 (B) (3)....
The added emphasis is mine. We are talking about a SINGLE receptacle, so that section and it's table do not apply. Section 210.21 (B) (1), which preceeds it, specifically addresses the case of a single receptacle.
21210.21 (B) (1) Single receptacle on an individual branch circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.
Do you not agree that a single 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit meets that requirement? Note that I'm not saying it makes sense to me, but it's clearly what it says.
No, I respect your logic, but I think that the Nec is written in an often incoherent legalese, which is why I use the handbook. It says that it can't be less than, but it doesn't say that it can be greater than. I think from a practical perspective, one should be able to expect a 20 amp receptacle to be fed by a 20 amp circuit
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You have a multibranch 15 amp circuit with 4 duplex 15 amp receptacles. You think it is only reasonable to expect to be able to plug 8 15 amp devices into the circuit?? Give your head a shake.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

No, but I would expect to be able to plug in one 15 amp device, and I would be correct, unlike having a 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit, where the same expectation wouldn't be met. Must just be my Boolean logic
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

"normal" conditions but can draw up to 20 (or even more) under cold-start or other special, but not fault, conditions.
And you can ONLY expect to plug in one 15 amp device if it is a DEDICATED outlet. - which is the only time a 20 amp receptacle IS allowed on a 15 amp circuit under current code.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Maybe circuit breakers could include a feature that gives a delayed trip for motor starting current and incandescent inrush. Oh, wait, every circuit breaker already has that feature. And a lot of fuses.
And a device is not rated 20A because of momentary conditions. It is rated 20A (or over 15A) because that is what it draws under normal conditions.

Maybe you can in Canada, but in the US you can' install a 20A receptacle on a 15A circuit (406.3-B).
--
bud--

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

It says no such thing.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 02:36:56 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Uh Oh, sounds to me like someone is lying. 20 lashes for whoever is found to be the guilty party, that's if this does not end up being a full blown nuclear usenet war. Now load your pistol, turn around, take 20 steps, and fire your firearms at each other..... Someone will die in the end ......
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Oct 12, 10:36pm, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Actually it does:
" 210.21 Outlet Devices. (B) Receptacles. (1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit."
Since 20amps is greater than 15amps, the 20 amp receptacle may be used on a circuit where it is the only receptacle.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

It does not.

You stopped reading too soon. Table 210.21(B)(3) specifically lists the permissible rating of receptacles on a 15A circuit as "not over 15A".

Since 20 amps is "over 15A", a 20 amp receptacle may not be used on a 15A circuit. Anywhere. Period.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.