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Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?

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Look, instead of oblique references, just give us the excerpt from a
federal website and link that says it's illegal for a homeowner to
remove asbestos from their own property.   I've asked for this
repeatedly, yet no one claiming i't illegal can provide it, because it
doesn't exist.  Quite the contrary, I've provided multiple limks from
state govts and asbestos organizations that not only don't say it's
illegal for a homeowner to work on asbestos themselves, they give the
procedures for DIY's.

Since you appear to be in the commercial business yourself, I'd
suggest that either you have a vested interest in misleading people,
or you're remarkably ignorant.

----------------------------------------

When you have the training, education, certifications and experience in
handling asbestos and other HAZARDOUS WASTES, then come on back. You have a
lot of homework to do, I suggest that you get started. BTW... before you
begin your little project, Since you don't want to believe us, I suggest
that you contact your local EPA, and OSHA offices, as well as you State,
County, and City and get them to give you copies of their laws and
regulations that apply to *YOU*.

Until then, don't let the door hit you in the ass.

*click*



Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
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In other words, just as before, you're incapable of supplying any
reference to any federal law that says it's illegal for a homeowner to
do asbestos work on their own home.  Not surprising, either, because
IT DOESN'T EXIST.   That's right, despite any training, education,
certification, and experience you MIGHT have, you still don't know
what you're  talking about.   Face it, you're in way over your head
here, yet you continue to come back for another whopping.




You have a
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You mean like this, from Cape May County NJ:

http://www.cmcmua.com/SOLID%20WASTE%20DISPOSAL%20PAGES/asbestos.htm

"The "Homeowner's Guide for the Disposal of Asbestos" is issued by the
CMCMUA to assist the homeowner when they are removing and disposing
asbestos from their personal residence.

Under current New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection
(NJDEP) and New Jersey Department of Labor Regulations (NJDOL), there
is nothing that prohibits the homeowner from removing, packaging and
disposing of asbestos roofing, siding and insulation from his personal
residence.  For further information on New Jersey asbestos
regulations, you may refer to the following websites:

http://www.state.nj.us/health/iep/asbestos_faq.shtml .
http://www.nj.gov/dep/dshw/rrtp/asbestos.htm "


Dumb ass.   There it is for you and it couldn't be any clearer.   Yet,
I suspect you'll be back for another whooping.




Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:01:33 -0800 (PST), trader4@optonline.net wrote:


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This does not address Federal Regulations. Just because local laws may
or may not allow it, that doesn't trelease you from Federal
regulations.


Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
salty@dog.com wrote:
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The lower levels of government that deal with asbestos are certainly
aware of federal regs. They are the basis of what can be done legally.
Their advice would be compliant with federal regs.

Nice links.

Still missing - any cite to federal regs that say homeowners can't
remove asbestos in their homes. As trader has said they should be easy
to find if they exist.

[I can see why alt.hvac has a bad rep.]

--
bud--

Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
bud-- wrote:
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Yes we do.. it is because useless asshole like you manage to contaminate
our professional group with idiotic trolling.
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Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
wrote:

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Couldn't have said it better!

Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
Don Ocean wrote:
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Q.E.D.
On one side is an engineer (registered professional engineer in several
states) who is a consultant and project manager in environmental areas
and certified in asbestos removal who says homeowners can remove asbestos.
Also explicit information from several state governments sites and other
agencies provided by trader that says that says homeowners can remove
asbestos.

On the other side is Don who has still not cited federal regs that say
homeowners can't remove asbestos in their homes. As trader has said the
regs should be easy to find if they exist.

--
bud--


Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?

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It *STILL* doesn't matter..... what does matter is that the person that is
doing the asbestos removal has to check with *ALL* of the required state,
county, and city officials reguarding asbestos removal, and comply with
their regulations, monitoring,  and inspection requirements. Remember that
the state, and local regs are based on FEDERAL regulations.

In any case, this conversation is done.

Have a nice day


Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
Don Ocean wrote:
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My source is not a boiler engineer.  He has a 4 year college degree in
engineering, has the required experience in the field, and has passed
the professional engineer tests to become a professional engineer.
.
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As a professional engineer he is, of course, aware of liability issues.


Still missing (what a surprise) - any links to government sites that say
homeowners are not allowed to remove asbestos in their homes.

If we follow Noon-Air's advice and look at state government pages we
find the sites trader has posted that say a homeowner can remove
asbestos in their homes. It is stupid to think a state would give advice
that is contrary to federal law. A homeowner of course needs to find out
the requirements including disposal.

Not part of my argument - my guess is the regulations under 29CFR/OSHA
apply to workplace safety and not outside the workplace - at home. EPA
regulations, which include disposal, do. (That is also what clare said.)

--
bud--

Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
bud-- wrote:
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Please don't attribute too much to the fact that someone is a
Professional Engineer.  It is more like a guild system than one which
guarantees knowledge and ability.

Boden

Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
Boden wrote:
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He owned a company with something like 20 employees. Over half the work
was in environmental areas - defining the nature and extent of a
problem, designing a remediation plan, and getting the plan through the
regulatory maze. In some cases also doing the cleanup work.

Most of the remaining work was also related to regulatory compliance
like worker and community right-to-know, confined space entry, ....

The common thread is knowing and applying government regulations.

--
bud--

Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
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Notice you posted this link, without comment.   And that is likely
because that link, which I had seen days ago when I first started
looking for the truth, doesn't say it's illegal for a homeowner to
remove asbestos in their own home.    It only says "should".   It also
says it's RECOMMENDED that minor repair be done by professionals
too.   Are you going to try to claim that makes repair work illegal
too?

Clearly, if it were illegal, the EPA would just come out and say that,
not leave it to tea leave readers.   Saying removal and repair should
be done by people trained and qualified in handling asbestos, is
similar to some auto advice site saying brake repair should be done by
people trained and qualified in auto repair.   Does that mean there's
a federal law making it illegal to work on the brakes of your own car?

BTW, depending on the type of asbestos product, the extent of it, etc,
there are certainly many cases where I would agree with the EPA's
advice that a homeowner should get professionals to do it.   But that
doesn't make it illegal under federal law to DIY.

Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
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Apparently you do, because you replied, didn't you?

Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:02:28 -0800 (PST), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

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Don't mistake a reply for caring, fool.  

Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
On Nov 10, 10:14=A0am, sa...@dog.com wrote:
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So, what exactly is your point?   Are you saying there is a federal
law that prohibits a homeowner from doing their own asbestos work or
removal?    That is what was claimed and being discussed.   No one
here ever denied there are regulations that must be followed, only
that it IS NOT ILLEGAL FOR A HOMEOWNER TO DO THE WORK THEMSELVES ON
THEIR OWN HOME THEY LIVE IN.  And if there were a federal law making
it illegal for a homeowner to remove asbestos, do you actually believe
that the various state DEP authorities I've cited would put up
websites telling their residents that it's legal, how to do it, and
the procedures to follow?  Of course if it were illegal under federal
law, the state agencies would just simply state that.   Did you look
at the links I provided from WA, DE, UT, NJ where they outline how
residents may remove and dispose of asbestos?

And despite all that, if you still claim it's illegal under federal
law, then just provide us with a reference to back it up.   I've asked
for it repeatedly and it hasn't been provided, because it doesn't
exist.

Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 05:21:21 -0800 (PST), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

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If you have paid all your state and local taxes, do you still need to
worry about Federal taxes?


Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:23:33 -0500, salty@dog.com wrote:

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No STATE law may transcend federal law.  If federal law prohibits
something, no state law can allow it. The reverse is not true. Just
because federal law does not prohibit something does not mean state
law cannot.
One step further, municipal laws cannot transcend state laws, but can
prohibit things allowed by state law UNLESS the higher jurisdiction
specipically outlighns certain "rights".

In other words, if the feds say you can NOT do something, no state or
municipal law can allow it. If a federal or state law enshrines
something as a right, a lower level of government can NOT prohibit it.

Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:43:03 -0500, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

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You really don't have the complete picture. Even in the federal
government, you can meet one federal law that is administered by one
department, and still not be free and clear of other regulations or
laws under the purview of another department.

You may need local, state and Federal permits, or even several permits
from various departments at each level, and they may all have
differing requirements. Sometimes they even have CONFLICTING
requirements, and you have to break one law to comply with another.

The Federal government may not prohibit a homeowner from removing
asbestos, but they may put such onerous restrictions and requirements
on it that it is not practical. Just because your local town or city
permits you to remove asbestos and take it to the dump in a garbage
bag, does not mean you have complied with all applicable state and
Federal requirements and laws.


Re: How to adjust oil furnace electrodes and flame?
On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:40:57 -0500, salty@dog.com wrote:

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 That's not what I said.
there may be permits and paperwork up the wazoo - but if there is no
federal law explicitly saying you can NOT do it, and no state law
saying you can NOT do it, and no municipal law saying you can NOT do
it, and the only laws in place regulating it are (as it appears)
workplace safety laws and environmental disposal laws, then a
homeowner, not being bound by workplace safety laws, only needs to
concern himself with disposal, so far as legalities are concerned.

He cannot pay a labourer to help with the job, and he cannot do it on
a home he does not own. He WILL need disposal permits and/or need to
meet the disposal requirements.

As far as safety is concerned, he will need to keep it wet, and it
will be a very good idea to wear a good filtration mask, or even a
fresh air respirator. It will be a good idea to wear disposable
coverals to limit the transfer of asbestos dust from the worksite.

Asbestos is ONLY dangerous when airborn and if the dust is inhaled.

I worked with asbestos for years, and while many mechanics blew out
the brake dust I always used a water hose and washed the dust out of
the brakes.

As a child we would buy asbestos at the hardware store, mix it with
plaster of paris, and use it as a modeling/sculpturing "clay" to build
models.

The dust IS nasty - and care must be taken, but the whole asbestos
abatement hullabaloo is a lot of government CYA. A lot of licenced
burglary has been legitimized by some very suspect science - and
several on this newsgroup have not only been taken in by it, they have
become obsessed by it.

As for various ministries having conflicting laws, that's government.
Get used to it. If you have the "opportunity" to deal with Transport
Canada and the Ontario Department of Transport you will have a very
good education as to how a government department should NOT be run as
well as a classic example of not only the left hand not knowing what
the right hand is doing, but the right thumb not knowing what the
right index finger is doing (or that it even, in fact, exists)

If you take the time and find the person/persons who actually know
something about what the laws say, what they mean, and how they are
interpreted,it IS possible to get things done - and you CAN "fight
city hall".

Those who say something cannot be done should get out of the way of
those who have already done it.

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