So, what exactly is your point? Are you saying there is a federal law that prohibits a homeowner from doing their own asbestos work or removal? That is what was claimed and being discussed. No one here ever denied there are regulations that must be followed, only that it IS NOT ILLEGAL FOR A HOMEOWNER TO DO THE WORK THEMSELVES ON THEIR OWN HOME THEY LIVE IN. And if there were a federal law making it illegal for a homeowner to remove asbestos, do you actually believe that the various state DEP authorities I've cited would put up websites telling their residents that it's legal, how to do it, and the procedures to follow? Of course if it were illegal under federal law, the state agencies would just simply state that. Did you look at the links I provided from WA, DE, UT, NJ where they outline how residents may remove and dispose of asbestos?
And despite all that, if you still claim it's illegal under federal law, then just provide us with a reference to back it up. I've asked for it repeatedly and it hasn't been provided, because it doesn't exist.
On one side is an engineer (registered professional engineer in several states) who is a consultant and project manager in environmental areas and certified in asbestos removal who says homeowners can remove asbestos. Also explicit information from several state governments sites and other agencies provided by trader that says that says homeowners can remove asbestos.
On the other side is Don who has still not cited federal regs that say homeowners can't remove asbestos in their homes. As trader has said the regs should be easy to find if they exist.
It *STILL* doesn't matter..... what does matter is that the person that is doing the asbestos removal has to check with *ALL* of the required state, county, and city officials reguarding asbestos removal, and comply with their regulations, monitoring, and inspection requirements. Remember that the state, and local regs are based on FEDERAL regulations.
No STATE law may transcend federal law. If federal law prohibits something, no state law can allow it. The reverse is not true. Just because federal law does not prohibit something does not mean state law cannot. One step further, municipal laws cannot transcend state laws, but can prohibit things allowed by state law UNLESS the higher jurisdiction specipically outlighns certain "rights".
In other words, if the feds say you can NOT do something, no state or municipal law can allow it. If a federal or state law enshrines something as a right, a lower level of government can NOT prohibit it.
You really don't have the complete picture. Even in the federal government, you can meet one federal law that is administered by one department, and still not be free and clear of other regulations or laws under the purview of another department.
You may need local, state and Federal permits, or even several permits from various departments at each level, and they may all have differing requirements. Sometimes they even have CONFLICTING requirements, and you have to break one law to comply with another.
The Federal government may not prohibit a homeowner from removing asbestos, but they may put such onerous restrictions and requirements on it that it is not practical. Just because your local town or city permits you to remove asbestos and take it to the dump in a garbage bag, does not mean you have complied with all applicable state and Federal requirements and laws.
That's not what I said. there may be permits and paperwork up the wazoo - but if there is no federal law explicitly saying you can NOT do it, and no state law saying you can NOT do it, and no municipal law saying you can NOT do it, and the only laws in place regulating it are (as it appears) workplace safety laws and environmental disposal laws, then a homeowner, not being bound by workplace safety laws, only needs to concern himself with disposal, so far as legalities are concerned.
He cannot pay a labourer to help with the job, and he cannot do it on a home he does not own. He WILL need disposal permits and/or need to meet the disposal requirements.
As far as safety is concerned, he will need to keep it wet, and it will be a very good idea to wear a good filtration mask, or even a fresh air respirator. It will be a good idea to wear disposable coverals to limit the transfer of asbestos dust from the worksite.
Asbestos is ONLY dangerous when airborn and if the dust is inhaled.
I worked with asbestos for years, and while many mechanics blew out the brake dust I always used a water hose and washed the dust out of the brakes.
As a child we would buy asbestos at the hardware store, mix it with plaster of paris, and use it as a modeling/sculpturing "clay" to build models.
The dust IS nasty - and care must be taken, but the whole asbestos abatement hullabaloo is a lot of government CYA. A lot of licenced burglary has been legitimized by some very suspect science - and several on this newsgroup have not only been taken in by it, they have become obsessed by it.
As for various ministries having conflicting laws, that's government. Get used to it. If you have the "opportunity" to deal with Transport Canada and the Ontario Department of Transport you will have a very good education as to how a government department should NOT be run as well as a classic example of not only the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, but the right thumb not knowing what the right index finger is doing (or that it even, in fact, exists)
If you take the time and find the person/persons who actually know something about what the laws say, what they mean, and how they are interpreted,it IS possible to get things done - and you CAN "fight city hall".
Those who say something cannot be done should get out of the way of those who have already done it.
As usual, just more FUD. Of course the answer to that is yes. No one here suggested that a homeowner that removes asbestos doesn't have to follow the applicable regulations. That's why states have websites that outline the correct procedure for DIY. But that wasn't the issue now, was it? The issue was that some of you made the claim that it's illegal for a homeowner to remove asbestos in their own home.
I provided you the links to Washington, Delaware, Utah, NJ, etc, where they outline the procedure for homeowners. Certainly these state EPA organizations are aware of federal regulations and aren't going to outline a procedure for their DIY residents to follow for asbestos removal if it's illegal for homeowners under federal law to do so.
So either post the reference to the federal law/regulation to back up your claim, or at least stop spewing nonsense. And the scary thing is, some of you guys actually claim to be certified. I wonder what else you know so much about that is all wrong.
Thanks for clearing up what most of us already know. Of course that has zero to do with the issue. I provided you with many state EPA sites that outline the procedure for homeowners to use when removing asbestos. Any thinking person will realize that these EPA depts are not going to post detailed procedures for residents to follow if federal law makes it illegal for a homeowner to remove asbestos. Instead, they would simply post that per federal law, it's illegal and that would be the end of the story.
And once again, if it's illegal, then just provide the link to the federal law/regulation that states that. I've provided links that show the DIY procedure for various states. Why can't you? Oh, that's right, because it doesn't exist.
. My source is not a boiler engineer. He has a 4 year college degree in engineering, has the required experience in the field, and has passed the professional engineer tests to become a professional engineer. .
. As a professional engineer he is, of course, aware of liability issues.
Still missing (what a surprise) - any links to government sites that say homeowners are not allowed to remove asbestos in their homes.
If we follow Noon-Air's advice and look at state government pages we find the sites trader has posted that say a homeowner can remove asbestos in their homes. It is stupid to think a state would give advice that is contrary to federal law. A homeowner of course needs to find out the requirements including disposal.
Not part of my argument - my guess is the regulations under 29CFR/OSHA apply to workplace safety and not outside the workplace - at home. EPA regulations, which include disposal, do. (That is also what clare said.)
Please don't attribute too much to the fact that someone is a Professional Engineer. It is more like a guild system than one which guarantees knowledge and ability.
Notice you posted this link, without comment. And that is likely because that link, which I had seen days ago when I first started looking for the truth, doesn't say it's illegal for a homeowner to remove asbestos in their own home. It only says "should". It also says it's RECOMMENDED that minor repair be done by professionals too. Are you going to try to claim that makes repair work illegal too?
Clearly, if it were illegal, the EPA would just come out and say that, not leave it to tea leave readers. Saying removal and repair should be done by people trained and qualified in handling asbestos, is similar to some auto advice site saying brake repair should be done by people trained and qualified in auto repair. Does that mean there's a federal law making it illegal to work on the brakes of your own car?
BTW, depending on the type of asbestos product, the extent of it, etc, there are certainly many cases where I would agree with the EPA's advice that a homeowner should get professionals to do it. But that doesn't make it illegal under federal law to DIY.
He owned a company with something like 20 employees. Over half the work was in environmental areas - defining the nature and extent of a problem, designing a remediation plan, and getting the plan through the regulatory maze. In some cases also doing the cleanup work.
Most of the remaining work was also related to regulatory compliance like worker and community right-to-know, confined space entry, ....
The common thread is knowing and applying government regulations.
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