NORDYNE IQ DRIVE (AKA MAYTAG, FRIGIDAIRE, WESTINGHOUSE) 23 SEER A/C UNITS

[PopeyeTheSailor]

I have owned this Maytag 23 SEER IQ Drive equipment from Nordyne (both a 3 ton & a 2 ton unit)since April 2009. I replaced two old, inefficient systems in their entirety. I paid top dollar for this high efficiency equipment and boy was I taken! Lots of service calls (more in 1 year than in the 11 years I owned the older units); high humidity inside the house (a new problem that started with the install of this equipment); noisy fans that wake me up when the units shut down at night; no improvement in energy efficiency at all (I have to keep the house 4 degrees cooler than with the old equipment to keep from sweating, due to the high humidity); equipment is sensitive to power fluctuations (computer brain flips out every time there is a switching transient from the power company and must be reset); and the list just goes on and on. I would NOT recommend purchasing this product. A Trane 2 Stage system would likely be a much better investment (note: I have never owned Trane equipment and I don't know anyone who works for Trane - it just happens to be the alternative I investigated before deciding to buy the IQ Drive.)

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[Steve]

Its very possible that the systems are oversized for your home, but most probably they are not correctly set up. Only 1 in 50 techs have the training, and experience to correctly install, set up, balance the refrigerant charge in them, and program the controls. *IF* you find one, he is not going to be cheap, but he will be worth every penny.

*DO NOT* block off coils as was suggested by another poster. That will compound your problems.

If need be, your local supplier for this equipment should be able to get the factory tech rep and a local tech to come straighten out your system.

[Grumpy]

Your humidity problem is because your AC is far over sized it does not run long enough to take humidity out. There is the way to get around that but you will need to do it must guys on this forum will disagree with me and no company will do it for you so you will had to do it. Get some aluminum self adhesive/stick on tape and block small portion of cooling coil that will lower the temperature of coil which will result in picking more moisture from the air, yes you AC will become less efficient but it may do what are you looking for.

Problem with power get some spike suppressor and install them on across all item that use power example on compressor install suppressors on to power wires that are feed compressor, install suppressors on across two wires that energized relays that feed compressor , install suppressors on two wires feed your circulation motor also on condenser fan motor if system utilized solenoid install suppressor across the solenoid. Yes I know it is not simple but if you want what you looking for you can be surprised, and get suppressors largest you can some people or OEM may call them MOVs search internet . Some HVAC people never hear of spike suppressor or MOV. ;

[Daniel who wants to know]

I would love to see what would happen to an MOV or capacitor if you hooked it across the motor leads on an iQ drive system. The high voltage/high frequency PWM from the inverter would likely destroy it instantly.

[The Daring Dufas]

Me and my buddy GB have been installing surge suppressors on HVAC gear for customers out in rural areas for some time now, it seems to reduce callbacks quite a bit. We also add high and low pressure cut-outs to condensing units along with anti short cycle timers. A high pressure cut out is especially good for people who have furry dogs that like to lay around the condensing unit.

TDD

[Grumpy]

Because you have never used them don't knocked I used them both but they must be properly rated for that particular application however if you don't know what are you doing then best thing is leave it alone!

[Grumpy]

As I said how many HVAC contractors do that perhaps you count fingers but then again I believe you are HAM operator.

[The Daring Dufas]

On 9/8/2010 1:46 PM, Grumpy wrote:

I actually have a first class commercial license from The FCC. I've worked on some radio stations but mostly commercial two way radio equipment. I did fix thousands of CB rigs way back in the last century. I'm not limited to one craft, I was repairing a point of sale system in a restaurant one day and the AC was out. The temp inside the place was over 100°F which pissed me off so I climbed up on the roof and fixed the 10 ton unit. Some idiot had installed a liquid line dryer on the output of the condenser coil and left it unsupported. Of course vibration caused the line to break off right where it came out of the coil resulting in complete loss of refrigerant. I cut away some of the fins so I could bend the tubing out, swage it and braze in a new piece of tubing to which I installed a new supported dryer and sight glass. After a deep vacuum and recharge of Freon, the AC was back up and cooling well. The owner took the kid who had been working on the AC up on roof to show him that I had repaired the unit that he claimed needed to be replaced. The kid was dumbfounded because he hadn't a clue how to make such a repair. I have a number of customers who call me for all sorts of repairs. I've helped build out restaurants where I install the walk in coolers, HVAC, computer systems, phone systems, access control systems, CATV, electrical and if a gun is pointed at me, I'll work on the damn plumbing. Me and my buddy, GB are part of a loose knit group of contractors who get into everything and swap jobs in all sorts of trades. I like it, it keeps things from getting boring.

TDD

[Stormin Mormon]

I sensed for a while that you have many talents. That's important, as the economy goes weaker and weaker.

[The Daring Dufas]

When the economy is down, people will repair rather than replace. It's like the remodeling business, it goes up in a down economy. The guys I work with will call on each other when some work comes up. If I get a call for a new HVAC system, GB does the duct work, WT does the wood work and I do the piping, power and control. Our attitude is to do a job once and do it correctly. Since we're all multi-craftsmen, we come across numerous other problems a customer may have and can advise them about what to do. I get on sites where I've seen load bearing support structures cut away by plumbers, HVAC installers and electricians because they didn't know any better so it helps to have broad knowledge of the construction and repair trades. If you don't understand something, don't touch it and call someone who does. Me and the guys I work with are calling each other all the time about things we come across, it prevents a lot of repair and installation disasters.

TDD

[Stormin Mormon]

When the economy is down, people will repair rather than replace. It's like the remodeling business, it goes up in a down economy.

CY: And that's good news for repair guys.

The guys I work with will call on each other when some work comes up. If I get a call for a new HVAC system, GB does the duct work, WT does the wood work and I do the piping, power and control. Our attitude is to do a job once and do it correctly. Since we're all multi-craftsmen, we come across numerous other problems a customer may have and can advise them about what to do.

CY: I have networked once or twice, when it's a lot easier to sub out part of a job. Wish more people had the team approach.

I get on sites where I've seen load bearing support structures cut away by plumbers, HVAC installers and electricians because they didn't know any better so it helps to have broad knowledge of the construction and repair trades.

CY: Reminds me of the time when the guys working with me spent an entire day cutting out some cinder block to run a duct to heat a house extension. Came back the next morning, and found the cable TV guy had run his cable diagonally across the opening we spent all day making. I suggested cutting out the cable with a pair of diags, serve the clueless guy right. They would have called when the cable TV didn't work.

If you don't understand something, don't touch it and call someone who does. Me and the guys I work with are calling each other all the time about things we come across, it prevents a lot of repair and installation disasters.

CY: Wish more people did that. Well, then there would be fewer pictures on the "there, I fixed it" web site.

[Daniel who wants to know]

My point was that it would be better to put the filtering on the line side of the expen$ive rectifiers and IGBTs instead of on the load side.

[Grumpy]

Dan any place that works some time you need to experiment Some time use of one on strategic place does the job and some time you can finish bottle of Jack Daniels and still you can have problems. Sorry but that is the way it is!

[Tymer]

Thanks for your comments, it's nice to actually have comments from someone who paid the ransom for the IQ Drive and unsatisfied. I feel for you. There is nothing worse than paying for top quality and getting junk.

Demand all your money back, if they don't respond, sue them. They won't show up in court and you will win a default judgement against them. Tack on $6000.00 for your pain and suffering.

Good Luck

[Steve]

If the systems were correctly sized, and correctly installed, there wouldn't be any issues. I would be willing to bet that the new systems were the same size as the old ones, and the installer did not do a complete, room-by-room heat loss/load calculation on the house before installing the new systems. I would also be willing to bet that the controls are not set up correctly. I would also venture to say that the refrigerant charge in the systems isn't correct either.

Its all about correct sizing and installation. If either is not correct, then the customer is not going to be happy.

In these parts, its normal to find *MOST* of the spec houses that have been built since around 1995 that have grossly oversized systems. Its not unusual for me to find a 5 ton system in a 2200sqft home, with ductwork (flex)that is sized for 3 ton(maybe) with a single 20x24 return, and is noisey as hell.

6 months after the system is installed, the installer is nowhere to be found. Gotta love the lowest bidder.

Yet when I do a heat load/loss calc, I come up with 3 tons for the same house, install a new system, new tin ductwork with 3 inch wrap, 24x24 return, the new 3 ton a/c freezes them out at 75F @ 50%RH, and cut their utility bills in half at the same time.... as well as being almost silent.

Just because the owner can pass a test to be able to carry the premium, high end equipment, doesn't mean that his install crew has a clue.

[Hammockadv]

Have a four ton westinghouse iq drive in my house. Have had it for four yea rs. The main board has gone out twice, replaced under warranty. Installed a whole house surge protector hoping that solves the issue. When the unit is running I don't think you can get a much better system. Electric bills hav e been less than half what they were with old unit. Best of all the humidit y is controlled very well. Hard part is finding people who can service it. So far I am a happy customer overall

[infoforme121]

About the humidity problem, if you replaced a low SEER 3 ton system (example 10 SEER) with a 23 SEER 3 ton system, shouldn't you have used a smaller tonnage system?