Time to Nuke the Clover?

[Tom Newton]

Hi Folks -

I live on long island, Ny ... and the temps are just about ready to start dropping below 80 consistently... I have nearly a 1/3 acre of lawn, and have a sprinkler system

As a first year homeowner I'm relatively new to this game. Here's my problem: I have clover, lots of clover, and I'd like to know the best strategy to rid the lawn of it and replace it with nice grass.

Currently, clover and various other weeds (perhaps chickweed) make up about

50% of the lawn, although its dispersed pretty evenly with nice grass... or I'll say decent grass. The house is 90 years old, and the lawn landscaping had been neglected for quite a few years. I get good sun.

Anyway, on a recent trip to Home Depot.. the gentleman there pointed me towards using an Ortho product called "Chickweed / Clover / Oxalis Killer" ... which is used with a sprayer, which I also bought. I tried one bottle, which took care of test area about 25X50 ft. That was two weeks ago. Wow. This stuff is serious! The product wiped out 100% of the clover and killed not one blade of grass. Cool.

Anyway, now that that proof of concept succeeded, and I only tested it on perhaps 1/10 of the area that needs fixing, I have a few questions about timing, and the steps I should take:

1) It's August 28, should I go out, buy nine more bottles, and nuke the whole place right now? Or is it too early? Given the fact that fall growing season starts mid-late september here, isn't it a good idea to nuke the place of the clover now?

2) After its all brown and dead, with all that fluff... what should I do? My gut tells me that when everything's dead, I should a) rake up all the dead and fluffy stuff with a stiff metal rake so the surface is fairly clean and the top layer of soil is looser, b) overseed the whole place on September

15th or so, c) and put down starter fertilizer with that seed, and d) run the sprinkler system at half the run times, but nightly (instead of the normal every other day) untill germination

Is this a good attack plan? Any help on methods, timing is appreciated.

Thanks

Tom Newton

[Starlord]

Why does everyone want to kill off clover? It's a very helpfull plant and I've seen lawns at big time hotels where they've gone to great cost to get clover to grow in with the grass. Why? Because clover will fix Nigon into the soil and the grass will be better off for it. Plus you will get a nice carpet of clover flowers when it blooms. I wish I could get it to grow out here in the mojave desert.

-- "In this universe the night was falling,the shadows were lengthening towards an east that would not know another dawn. But elsewhere the stars were still young and the light of morning lingered: and along the path he once had followed, man would one day go again."

Arthur C. Clarke, The City & The Stars

[Frankhartx]

Get rid of the grass--keep the clover

[SugarChile]

One thing to consider.....rabbits love clover. I feel that having lots of clover in my lawn, apart from the other benefits, distracts the rabbits and helps keep them out of the vegetable garden.

Cheers, Sue

[Tom Newton]

Okay then! Sounds like the wrong ng for this touchy subject.

As per my post, I found a product that works, want to get rid of it, and would like my described method validated or commented on. Let me check google for other ng's where this Q might be applicable

Tom

----------------

Hi Folks -

I live on long island, Ny ... and the temps are just about ready to start dropping below 80 consistently... I have nearly a 1/3 acre of lawn, and have a sprinkler system

As a first year homeowner I'm relatively new to this game. Here's my problem: I have clover, lots of clover, and I'd like to know the best strategy to rid the lawn of it and replace it with nice grass.

Currently, clover and various other weeds (perhaps chickweed) make up about

50% of the lawn, although its dispersed pretty evenly with nice grass... or I'll say decent grass. The house is 90 years old, and the lawn landscaping had been neglected for quite a few years. I get good sun.

Anyway, on a recent trip to Home Depot.. the gentleman there pointed me towards using an Ortho product called "Chickweed / Clover / Oxalis Killer" ... which is used with a sprayer, which I also bought. I tried one bottle, which took care of test area about 25X50 ft. That was two weeks ago. Wow. This stuff is serious! The product wiped out 100% of the clover and killed not one blade of grass. Cool.

Anyway, now that that proof of concept succeeded, and I only tested it on perhaps 1/10 of the area that needs fixing, I have a few questions about timing, and the steps I should take:

1) It's August 28, should I go out, buy nine more bottles, and nuke the whole place right now? Or is it too early? Given the fact that fall growing season starts mid-late september here, isn't it a good idea to nuke the place of the clover now?

2) After its all brown and dead, with all that fluff... what should I do? My gut tells me that when everything's dead, I should a) rake up all the dead and fluffy stuff with a stiff metal rake so the surface is fairly clean and the top layer of soil is looser, b) overseed the whole place on September

15th or so, c) and put down starter fertilizer with that seed, and d) run the sprinkler system at half the run times, but nightly (instead of the normal every other day) untill germination

Is this a good attack plan? Any help on methods, timing is appreciated.

Thanks

Tom Newton

[Beecrofter]

Hey Tom What's wrong with clover? It only became considered a weed when the herbacides began to kill it, prior to that it was included as a part of turfgrass. It feeds bees, birds, and butterflies, provides nitrogen back to the soil without it leaching into an allready polluted sound.

[Tom Newton]

I've found a product that eliminates clover, I'd like to eliminate clover. I've indicated a potential plan to eliminate the clover. I am looking for advice or suggested modifications to my plan to eleminiate clover.

Oh brother ;-)

Tom

[Dwight Sipler]

Here's a guy who apparently doesn't like clover. Since most of the others on this newsgroup really like clover, we are trying to convert him to our point of view. That's to be expected: it's human nature. He, being convinced of the correctness of his opinion, resists conversion. Again, human nature.

Who knows? maybe he has really good reasons for not liking clover. Maybe he should try to convert us. I haven't seen him try yet. At any rate, we have put him in a position where he has to put up with the conversion attempts or ignore this newsgroup (with all its *valuable* discussions) for a while. Just think what he'll be missing!

[BattMeals]

A number of people *are* suggesting modificatons to your plan -- don't eliminate the beneficial clover! ;)

You might try alt.home.lawn.garden for advice. They talk a lot about eliminating weeds without excess concern about the environment.

-matt

[Tom Newton]

Thanks Matt for your advice, I just saw that ng and will post there.

Don't worry folks, I have more clover than you've ever seen and will continue to have lots. Around the garden in the back is nice, even around the walkway circling the garage -- believe me - I have tons and will still have tons (thank god it's not the rare endangered "spotted clover" LOL ... or I'd wind up with 20 rusty microbusses out front with graying hippies holding hands around the lawn!

Don't worry, I'll preserve some... but where I don't want it... I will nuke it mercilessly ;-) how's that?

Tom

[Lar]

In article , [e-mail] says... :) Don't worry, I'll preserve some... but where I don't want it... I will nuke :) it mercilessly ;-) how's that? :) :) For those who seem to go the middle ground..good job. For the other 10% on the extremes...well grab either wieners or marshmallow and grab a front seat for the roast.

[simy1]

wrong group to ask this question. Most people here do not approve of polluting for the silly reasons you have. Also, if your lawn is full of clover, it is because it is low in N. Unmixed lawns are not sustainable. Keep what you have and thank god for having a lawn that stays green through the summer.

[Heidi]

I'll defend the desire to get rid of clover. I don't mind a little bit, but when the clover has spread over my entire front yard, choking out all grass, I think it is time to get rid of it and let the grass have some room. From a very practical perspective, we won't be living in our current house forever, and when the day comes to put it up for sale, I think we will have more buyers interested if the grassy areas of our lawn are mostly grass, and not just a field of clover.

Heidi

Starlord wrote:

[Derryl Killan]

Hi Tom

Continue to kill all the clover ASAP. You'll be able to top dress the bare spots and over seed. Adjust your sprikler times to keep the seeded sarea damp. You should be able to do the first cut by the end of September.

Derryl Killan Horticulturalist [e-mail]

[Starlord]

If I was able to buy a home and found one with a field of clover in front of it, it would be number one on the list, and it it happen to meet my other wants ( larger area for garden, large area for Telescope Building, even larger area for rocket flying ) why then I'd buy it. Oh ya, forgot one, noone else within a mile of the place.

-- "In this universe the night was falling,the shadows were lengthening towards an east that would not know another dawn. But elsewhere the stars were still young and the light of morning lingered: and along the path he once had followed, man would one day go again."

Arthur C. Clarke, The City & The Stars

[Chris Owens]

Well, actually, a mixed-species lawn is likely to be healthier, stay green longer, and require less maintenance than an all-grass one. But, if you are fixiated on pursuing the icon of an all-grass lawn, and are willing to put in BOATLOADS of work and money, here goes:

Yes, go kill all the clover now. Then, water very well for the next few weeks; this will cause unsprouted seeds to germinate. Repeat the killing-off. Now, get delivery of enough compost -- guaranteed sterile -- to cover your lawn about an inch deep. Spread it out and rake it in. Don't remove the dead material; it will provide protection for the grass seed and in-place fertilizer. Next, overseed the lawn in the last two weeks of September. Use about twice the recommended density of a good-quality mixed grass seed. Gently rake that in. Water the whole lawn every single day for 15 min until the ground freezes. Hand-weed diligently. Keep everyone off of the grass. Next spring, start cutting the grass when it reaches 3". Cut to 2" and repeat every time it grows to 3". Weed diligently. Spread an inch of compost every fall, and lightly overseed. Make sure the lawn gets an inch of water a week; preferably in one or two big doses rather than several small ones. And, most of all, keep everybody off the grass . . . it reacts poorly to compacted soil and being walked on.

Chris Owens