Pesky Lawn Weeds

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Do you mean "anecdotal" evidence?
Figures you and your ilk would have difficulties believing the truth. Must have something to do with all those dangerous chemicals you don't use.
Hound Dog
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Well, Mr. Spelling Cop, may be your should learn the difference between 'then' and 'than'.

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A typo is one thing, a word badly mangled is another.
You do know the difference, don't you?
Hound Dog
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wrote:
            (all sniped)
Methinks "Hound dog" should take a hike... We don't need his kind of flames on a good news group like this.
Dick
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What's NEEDED on this newsgroup are answers to the questions that have been asked instead of maniacal responses about the dangers of fertilizers and chemicals. I think most adults on this newsgroup are aware that all substances may be hazardous if used improperly. That includes the organic as well as the inorganic ones.
Besides, I have not FLAMED anyone. I have only responded in kind to those who have attacked me.
Reread the posts.
Hound Dog
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I have not FLAMED anyone. I have only answered their attacks on me in kind.
Read their posts.
Hound Dog
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Getting back to the original question:
my nemisis as far as lawn weeds go is 'ground ivy'. Great looking flowers in the spring but takes over the lawn afterwards. I have tried various lawn fertilizers with weed control and home remedies spraying at certain times of the year but nothing seems to work as well as taking an hour every evening in warm weather and getting down on the grass and pulling it out by hand (sort of meditative too)....
rich haynes
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Ummm, 1,100,000 actually is equal to 1.1 million, and if you multiply that by 1,000 you get 1,100,000,000 which is 1 billion 100 million. You stated that 1,100,000 x 1,000 = 1,100,000.
Her math is not so fuzzy. I cannot vouch for the source of her numbers.
Mike
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I wrote it incorrectly, but did state it as 1.1 Billion. Which makes her estimation of Billions incorrect and, in my opinion, to call it "FAULTY MATH."
Hound Dog
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As noted, it is always a good idea to actually READ the posts before jumping in to attack. And it helps one's credibility to counter an argument with some facts of your own. "Hound Dog" fails on both counts.
HD, if you bother to reread what I wrote, I said the estimate (yes, an EPA "estimate" based on sales figures of the products) of 1.1 million pounds annually was for MY immediate area only. I furthered that statement with statistics provided by the EPA (do your own search to confirm or refute) for 1997, which provided a total of 4.6 billion pounds of pesticides (didn't include fertilizers) consumed that year in the US, of which only 3/4's was attributed to agricultural uses - the rest to homeowners. So explain to me where the fuzzy math is - 1.1 million x 1000 = 1+ billion in my book and 25% of 4.6 billion = 1.15 billion, but perhaps your math is different. Regardless of how many billion, it is still an astronomically higher figure than the 'few" pounds you attribute (without anything to support it, I might add).
Yes, I believe you are uninformed - your initial statement certainly supports that contention. And I doubt you have bothered to do any personal research to either support your view or counter mine. If you want a site to verify figures and data, check the EPA http://www.pestlaw.com/x/guide/1999/EPA-19991100A.html#Table Highlights
This is only one of many.
FWIW, I am not a fanatic but I do make it a point to be well informed about issues which affect my livelihood (professional horticulturist) and my environment and to dispute the veracity of wild ass claims made by folks who don't have a clue what they are talking about.
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Lucky for you that you woren't the poor sot picking the crops.
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I did my share of the work on my grandfathers farm when I was a young boy, including helping to harvest the crops.
I have recently retired and my health is still excellent. My grandfather was approaching 100 when he died and he was still planting and harvesting crops the day he passes away. So, what's your point, if you have one?
I guess you eat only organically grown food and have a bicycle to ride on so you don't pollute the air.
Hound Dog
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Did you and your grandpa dump tons and tons of chemicals on your crops every year?

You guess wrong.
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I said farmers, collective, not just one. Is that concept beyond you?

Than you should be ashamed of yourself.
Hound Dog
I
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And I asked about you and your grandpa specificly. Did you learn what a "question" was at school? How about "answer"?

If that's what you think. Of course I have little reason to regard your opinions highly.
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As far as I can see you have little reason to even be.
Hound Dog
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What do these chemicals you are referring to degrade into?
What is the filtration capacity of a typical lawn?
What happens when the lawn becomes saturated? (if I read some current post correctly, extremely little soil particulate is incorporated into plant biomass)
What is the mechanism whereby these new chemicals decompose? I assume they are not inherently unstable (or else they would lose efficacy in transit or sitting on the store shelves)
What are some representative products and the university your are referring to?
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Start out with a good soil test. Your local extension service will either be able to provide you with a soil test, or provide addresses of labs that offer soil testing. You'll need to take a proper sample from several areas of the yard and then mix them together if the soils appear pretty much the same, or do several samples if the soils appear different. http://soiltest.coafes.umn.edu/howtosam.htm
While you're at it, cut a chunk of sod out and take a good look at it.. are the roots all in the top inch of soil? Is there a heavy layer of thatch? Is there something different about soil in the top inch than down a bit further? These are all cues that you've got work to do on a lawn.
Tell the people doing the soil test that it's a lawn sample, and you'll probably need recommendations for potassium and phosphorous and lime for lawns in your area, along with an estimation of soil texture (my guess is, given lots of dandelions, your soil is probably pretty compacted and low in organic matter).
Follow the recommendations you'll get back for fertilizing and for lime (which will require repeated applications, most likely).
Read up on lawn grasses that are useful in your area (again, Extension Service probably has good pamphlets on this) and with your sun and shade conditions.
Based on your reading, on the soil analysis, and on how much work you want to do and when, you may want to zorch the entire lawn, work in organic matter and/or sand to a goodly depth (and install underground watering lines, change the drainage around your house, install french drains, etc.) and start from scratch, or you may want to renovate the lawn over time. Or you may choose to reduce or eliminate the lawn entirely.
If you do choose lawn, learn to mow properly. You can't let it get up to the eaves, and then scalp it down to the ground so you only have to do it once a month or so... for most lawn grasses, you need to mow fairly high (2-3"), and never remove more than 1/3 of the height at each mowing. Trust me, mowing more often is much easier than fighting the battle of the lawn weeds constantly.
The real secret to weed control is "canopy closure"... weeds grow in open soil. Give your lawn grasses the soil and water and mowing they need, and they'll crowd out the weeds.
IMHO, a really good book for beginning lawn and garden renovaters is Anna Carr's Rodale Press book, "Rodale's Chemical-Free Yard and Garden". They do a nice job of starting with soil and amending it as needed, then choosing plants suited to your soil and climate - which means a whole lot less work and expense in the long run. I'm not an organic gardener (I garden on the LISA model (low-input, sustainable agriculture)), but the information in this book is pretty solid and there's nothing in it that can really hurt your community, in contrast to many of the other lawn care books. And it's readable and doable.
Kay Lancaster snipped-for-privacy@fern.com
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