Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate

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wrote:

However, if you dig a deeper basement, you'll have more time to shut the water off at the main before the level rises high enough to damage something valuable.
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Scott in SoCal wrote:

What a horse shit response to Sheldon's post!
It's true that a hose will only expand so far when containing ice. Very true. Those of us who have lived in areas of real winters and real freezing temperatures know for a fact that the hose will BURST, and thus expand no further. The only thing that may stop it from happening is to leave the hose end open so that water will drain before freezing begins, or drain your hoses and take them inside before freezing weather comes.
The water in the hose bib will freeze too, if the hose is left connected (ahhh, bitter experience, friend, bitter bitter experience -- I was a fool!) and if the pipe bursts the leak will either be in the basement or within the wall and siding through which the plumbing runs. It's a bloody, bloody mess, my friend! Turn off the water supply to your outdoor taps!! Anyone who has had their pipes freeze will tell you that your plan is idiocy.
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On Mon, 05 May 2008 21:07:39 -0600, Pennyaline

I don't expect you to get the joke, but all the chi.general regulars do.
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Scott in SoCal wrote:

I understood that your response was absurd. Did I say that digging a deeper basement in anticipation was a bad idea? No. I said the response was horse shit, as in you didn't respond to the previous post at all.
But if your response to me means that this whole outdoor water in Chicago climate thing is a joke among the chi.general regulars and nothing more, then keep it to yourselves and stop crossposting. Otherwise, take what your getting as well-intentioned advice and STFU when you don't get what you want to hear. 'kay?
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Fuck you!
Yer posting from a rec.* hierarchy and .garden to boot!
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KK wrote:

No shit, honey, thanks to the OP's crossposting. Now, howsaboutcha tell ol' "Newbie" to go fuck *himself* for starting the xpost in the first place, huh? Off you go! There's a good kid!
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Are you cute?
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wrote:

Berating kenji does no good.
Get some leather boots and a riding crop and he'll lick your floors forever, know what I mean?
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Ron T. wrote:

Yup...ken - joe "feeds" on "attention".
And speaking of *on - topic*, ya grow any vegetables 'n stuff down there on your estate, Ron...???
-- Best Greg
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wrote:

Yup...ken - joe "feeds" on "attention".
And speaking of *on - topic*, ya grow any vegetables 'n stuff down there on your estate, Ron...???
-- Best Greg
I put in tomatos ( 3 types), green peppers, red peppers, cucumbers, watermelon, lettuce, red and russet potatos, turnips, collards, and cantaloupe this year, Greg.
I have a section of kinda-field area that I try to keep some good herbs in, and a section near the woods-line that I keep in mint for juleps.
Bib overalls and straw hat optional.
Nice thing is, I have access to all the cow manure I can carry away, and a couple people bring their fish parts after an outing.
There's a federal drug unit that flys in the area from spring to fall with spectrum-scanning stuff looking for cannabis fields, which are a huge cash crop down here. When we see the black helicopters, we know it's time to plant the garden.
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On Tue, 06 May 2008 11:49:06 -0600, Pennyaline

"Take what your getting as well-intentioned advice and STFU when you don't get what you want to hear. 'kay?"
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wrote:

You first, manure breath.
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Scott in SoCal wrote:

Excellent work! Excellent! You have now graduated "Quotations in Newsgroups." Wonderful! The next module is "The Subtle and Vital Differences Between 'Shut the Fuck Up,' 'Fuck You' and 'Go Fuck Yourself.'"
When you've completed the next module and passed the post test, take the information you have gained and direct it toward the OP.
<'and til we see each other for our next class, STFU.>
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Dioclese wrote:
: A simple way to take up the ice expansion is to have a garden hose connected : while the hose bib valve is open. The garden hose should have a simple : valve on the end for open or closed. The hose's ability to expand will take : most of the compression while the valve on the end of the hose is closed.
I am no great expert on the issue, but the following fact concerns me. We all see potholes and damage to various surfaces from thawing and freezing cycles. Now, it seems to me that this water was completely open on one side. It could have just expanded into the air, but no, it expanded in all directions and did the damage. So that worries me. Why would the hose fare any better than a cavity in a brick or sidewalk?
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Well, once the part exposed to the cold air freezes, I'm guessing the rest of the water can no longer expand in that direction as it freezes. The older ice forms a solid barrier, forcing the newer ice to expand in other directions.
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: >I am no great expert on the issue, but the following fact concerns me. : >We all see potholes and damage to various surfaces from thawing and : >freezing cycles. Now, it seems to me that this water was completely : >open on one side. It could have just expanded into the air, but no, it : >expanded in all directions and did the damage. : : Well, once the part exposed to the cold air freezes, I'm guessing the : rest of the water can no longer expand in that direction as it : freezes. The older ice forms a solid barrier, forcing the newer ice to : expand in other directions.
Makes sense and also, the open end closest to the cold air should freeze first, forming the kind of barrier you suggest. Then, the same will happen to the hose. The open air will freeze first, causing the rest of the water to damage the pipe when it freezes later.
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If ice is like toothpaste, then why can it crack boulders? The answer is, that it isn't like toothpaste and when it forms its' lattice and freezes it takes more space, in all directions.
--

Billy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net

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Newbie wrote:

After reading all the replies, I have a suggestion that no one has mentioned that will work in your area. You have to find the winter frozen soil depth first. Here is most likely what will stop you. You have to come from the heated area at least a foot deeper than recorded frozen soil depth and stay that deep to where you want the faucet. The faucet you want is a valve that mounts to the pipe you put in below freeze depth that has the on and off rod up through the stand pipe hooked to a leaver at the faucet to turn it on and off. You have to have a gravel bed below the valve in the bottom of the trench because when you turn the valve off, all water drains out of the stand pipe that is connected to the valve. Your friendly plumbing supply will have these in stock that reaches the depth you need & can tell you someone qualified to install it. This is the type valve on the drinking fountains someone else mentioned, but didn't know how they worked.
For what you want, that's too expensive. Put the freeze proof faucet through the wall and run a re-enforced hose to where you want the faucet and use adapters that are available to put a faucet on that "summer outside pipe" hose.
Tom J
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well, you got a *lot* of it, almost a 40/60% signal to noise ratio!
My house had a short (6 foot) section of pipe under the back porch when I purchased it.
The first summer I got tired of the regular faucet that leaked, and put a ball valve inline with it (in addition to the ball valve inside the basement).
Out of 13 years, the "remember to shut off the water before the first hard freeze" has worked 10 times. 2 of the brain failures were at the new, outside ball valve which, happily, was made of aluminum and ended up being an easy-to-fix sacrifical lamb.
The third/ten failure was last winter...a 90 degree elbow under the porch. Almost just as easy, but on my back under the porch. A little plumber's tape, tighten, and you are done. Pretty simple stuff.
All the failures have been minor as far as mess goes...the pipe splits a tiny crack, the pressure is released, and you get a mist stream shooting out of the pipe.
So, if you *do* run pipe outside,
1) make sure all of it is easy to get to...don't run under your deck!
2) remember to shut off inside, and open outside, before the first freeze
3) a small section of aluminum pipe at the easiest place to get to (near the end) wouldn't hurt...
--Ken
--
Ken R. Dye an optimist is a guy |
Chicago, Illinois that has never had |
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