On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 20:19:28 -0400, "symplastless"
Oh no, you're not one of those, God knows every hair on your head guy"
When I read the first sentence of your posts, the rest turns into
Charlie Brown's teacher and mother....wop wop wow op wop wop waa.
Dear Don Staples: What do you mean when you say "consulting forester" of
PA? In other words what do you mean when you say "consulting forester"?
The reason I ask is I have no clue and your website has a link defining it
but it is dead. http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/forestry/staples.htm
I am not interested in conversation with you because you do not define your
terms which leaves only noise.
BTW most of Pennsylvania is tree farms managed by silverculturlist or
practicing foresters with the main objective is to get the wood out. Tree
biology never gets a chance.. There are a few still fertile forest in some
locations. I have done soil sampling in such forests to better
understanding the elements required for certain species such as eastern
hemlock. Work people who you know in Pennsylvania have not done.
Other than that I have no clue as to what you are saying. Your lips move
but I can't hear what you are saying.
To whom it may concern
I make decisions based on tree biology when possible regarding forest health
as well as tree farming. You refer to that as a fraud and your contribution
to forest health? I understand that you have a background in wood products,
yet that seems limited when you made comments on the use of a Shigometer to
detect the quality of wood. from your website you seem to make decisions
based on board foot ant not tree biology. Your efforts seem to be geared
towards tree farming and not forest health management. When you claim to be
a forester that seems to be miss leading and somewhat fraud like, I.e., if
you must insist on uncovering fraud. not that I don't respect your tree
farming efforts to provide needed wood products for humans. I just claim
that tree biology needs to be considered when managing trees and their
associates in tree farming (commercial sale of wood from once fertile
forest). You call that a fraud and a con artist? I would not feel
comfortable calling you that, but then seldom does progress come from
comfort. If I was involved with a decision making process in tree farming
projects I would insist that other people be involved in the process, e.g.,
including but not limited too, wildlife biologist, soil scientist, water
ecologist as well as my understanding of tree biology. I.e., only when the
person or persons tree farming their single stand or group of trees under
one or more ownership desires to take tree biology into consideration.
SHIGOMETRY would be a very useful tool for someone that understands tree
anatomy such as the difference between sapwood trees and heartwood forming
trees, the difference between sapwood and heartwood, the difference in
electrical resistance of discolored or color altered wood from a wound or
injury from sapwood or heartwood. Exposing the flaws in the heartrot
concept would be of some value. There is just so much more than board feet
to take into consideration when tree farming. I am surely not the only
person who has an understanding of tree biology even though I have studied
tree biology more than most and not as much as some Studying your website
Don Staples, it appears that you are very much into tree farming with a
background in wood products which is limited due to the lack of
understanding of tree anatomy. When we start with a 2x4 and try to
understand wood decay, it becomes very confusing. Many properties of wood
products is determined when the product was part of the growing and ever
changing tree. E. g., wood that was chemically altered from a wound or
injury when it was part of a tree system (redundant, a tree is a system) is
the first place carpenter ants and termites will go when it is made into a
wood product. The quality of the wood can be detected quickly and with
accuracy with a thorough understanding of tree anatomy and the use of a
Shigometer. Wood anatomy is different than tree anatomy which I do not
expect you to understand and I do expect you to argue that fact out of
ignorance. That's tree farming and wood products in a nut shell.
Forest health is another topic. With limited to little to no understanding
of tree biology it is hard to understand the unique functions and processes
of a forest. Cutting the wood out of a forest at this date and time is
something that is better left to tree farming and tree farms which I
addressed in the latter paragraph. Logging - Briefly, "with respect." - It
has been published that logging is removing or cutting out present and
future coarse woody debris from a forest, woods or a field. Logging is
removing, probably the single most, present and future, important habitat
and potential niche for the survival of organisms in drastically altered
systems. ...dying and symplastless wood provides one of the two or three
greatest resources for animal species in a forest. ..if fallen timber and
slightly decayed trees are removed the whole system is gravely impoverished
of perhaps more than a fifth of its fauna. Logging is removing future
reservoirs and storehouse of nutrients as well as elements for fauna and
flora. In respect, to such projects as the "Burn and Clearcut Project"" -
Logging is the killing of trees. Logging is removal of most of the stem of
one of the largest, longest lived contributors to the once fertile forest
health. the wood out of a once fertile forest is not in the interest in
forest health. A thorough understanding of the relationship between trees
and their associates in a forest is the backbone of legislature in the USA
to end commercial logging or federal public land and allow these tracts of
land to be the forest they were supposed to be when called National Forest,
etc. My role as the consulting forester which I clearly define in my
dictionary, is to contribute in writing comments based on my understanding
of tree biology (defined in my dictionary) backed by peer reviewed published
data in refereed journals when possible, regarding the importance of such
legislature with respect to forest health. The bill takes steps to help
communities and displaced loggers.
I have great respect for Don Staples and his tree farming business and
website which explains just what he does and so forth. I do think due to
his lack of understanding of tree biology and tree anatomy he would be best
described as a consulting tree farmer. I still believe he should bring in
other people specializing in tree biology and wildlife and so on. Logging
is hard work, which I do not think Don Staples actually picks up a chain
saw, which I have learned by working for a logger. As well as the suggested
4 year course to in wood products to be a tree farmer I would add that a
degree in hemp products would serve well. Hemp farming could provide much
required material for an ever growing industry. If you do not understand
and use a SHIGOMETER in wood product production you are not doing all you
can do to provide high quality products. I do have a great understanding of
wood products in that area due to my understanding of tree anatomy. I am
working on a project that addresses goals of tree farms and one on forestry
(management of forest) goals, their things in common and things not. E.g.,
a fertile forest could be the site of optimum fertility levels for trees, a
tree farm would not.
When either I am consulting on tree farming or forests, some of my
foundations starts with these docs: Its a start.
Tree Farming and Machine Wounds
Wood Products Defects:
Some of my comments on the latter can be found here
What's important is that tree biology is considered when making decisions on
forest health. Trees have many associates that greatly depend on healthy
systems for survival. History shows that in St. Louis - USA, the
Mississippi Valley Laboratory was established in 1899. The director at that
time was Dr. Herman von Schrenk. Studies on wood decay and discoloration
(woundwood) were done mostly. In time, the studies drifted toward wood
products. In 1907 the lab was discontinued and the Forest Products
Laboratory at Madison, Wisconsin took over. The major focus of the lab was
on wood products decay - "Tree biology never had a chance". For more see
TREE PITHY POINTS by Alex L. Shigo. Too often decisions in tree farming and
on tree farms are based on board foot rather than management based on an
understanding of the ecological stages of trees and their associates. Too
often over looking trees and associates requirements. Sure you can claim I
am not a forester, but first define what you mean when "you" say "forester".
I have in my dictionary.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/C/consulting_forester.html I do not
claim to be anything else. When commercial interest dictates the method
and treatments of National Forest, associates too often suffer. I see it in
urban wood management. The biggest problem, some say, is getting the wood
out fast enough and without criticism. Is that what you mean when "you" say
"forester"? Surely I have much more to learn then I have learned regarding
the ecological stages of trees and their associates and the relationship
between the two. A once fertile forest does more than just function as a
supply of wood for humans. Surely man would benefit by legalizing
commercial hemp and the products it can produce. It is said that George
Washington's first flag was made of hemp. The Constitution was written on
hemp. Sure I am a consumer. Toilet paper is a requirement to me. We need
to separate the forest from the tree farms. Tree farmers need help and also
would benefit by an understanding of tree biology in managing their
non-renewable natural resource. A good understanding of cellulose and the
role it plays on healthy soils "should" be of interest to tree farmers. Its
sad when it is not. Just my crazy thoughts. Surely no one on this list
endorses me or my thoughts. But they are mine and not theirs. That's what
makes me unique. Imagine a world where all pathogens went away! Ignorance
of tree biology still remains a serious problem for trees and their
associates worldwide. We are an associate, friend or foe. I repeat, by
your definition I am not a forester. Please define what one is
in your words. And I religiously say " don't believe anything because I
said it" "believe it because you see it for yourself". When payment for
making a tree safe, in a once fertile forest, is the harvest of the wood,
its a bad situation. Rather than making a snag which could be safe for many
years, housing many flying squirrels - they are displaced by removing the
wood. The professional who would make the snag should be well paid for that
skill and risk as well as the ground person or persons. Thus not having to
rely on the wood for payment. It
hurts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, just my crazy
An interesting book, if you have not read it, is A NEW TREE BIOLOGY. It
comes with its own dictionary. It should be at your local library. The
book is listed at www.shigoandtrees.com. Too many people want to be made
robots. Training without education makes robots. Education without
training makes waste. Waste is an human term for inefficient management of
substance or thing. A forest knows no waste. Sorry about by ignorance in
the difference between a tree farmer, a tree farm and a forester and a
forest. Enough of my thoughts, what're yours?
One more thing to take into consideration. My professor who was the chief
scientist in a pioneering expedition into tree decay with the US Forest
Service was, including but not limited too, a tree biologist, a mycologist,
and ecologist, a forest researcher, a teacher, a genus with trees and a
musician left us with his last TREE PITHY POINT #950 and I quote "Ignorance
of tree biology has been, and still is, the major cause of tree problems
worldwide." Knowing the man very well I would say that that includes tree
farms as well as forest. Not to forget he was a wood products specialist,
starting with the tree to understand decay, the succession of microorganism,
termites, ants and much more with respect to wood products.
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist with respect to forest and / or tree farms.
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 21:29:11 -0400, "symplastless"
Far as I can see, here is the list:
# Timber and Land Appraisal
# Timber and Land Sales
# Timber Marketing
# Estimates of Timber Volume
# Boundary Line Maintenance
# Land Acquisition and Sales
# Salvage And Restoration
# Management Plans
# Forest Resource Studies
# Soil Mapping
# Urban Forestry
# Wildlife Management
# Precommercial Thinnings
# Long-Term Forest Management
# Lease Management
# Litigation - Expert Witness
# Assistance In Vendor Location And Supervision
# Ad Valorem Tax Assistance
What part of it don't you comprehend?
What he does besides cut the wood out of once fertile forest - tree farming
An uderstanding of tree biology for starters.
If you understand tree biology than please explain why the only treatment
you offer is cutting out the wood?
How do you help forest with respect to the ecological stages of trees and
things like fungi diversity? Please comment.
Do you use a SHIGOMETER and if not why not?
You have fancy names but have yet to even define what you mean when you say
"forest"? What is a forest to you besides future tree farms to get the wood
You say soil mapping? What is the optimum fertility levels for Eastern
hemlock. Or in Texas, what is the optimum fertility level for live oaks?
What is an urban forest? Please define what you mean when you say forest.
How do you manage wildlife? By helping people not miss the opportunity to
salvage the wood from the wildlife. You are a taker.
Unlike you, deadwood, I don't have to write a dictionary to acquire some
level of education or expertise that you seem to want, but will never
obtain. The four or five shelves of books, from college and continuing
education, define what a forester does, his background, his phylosophy.
I ask again, other than your dumb ass dictionary, what education do you
have, other than the day courses put on by Dr. Shigo, where you were a saw
Cut cut cut, forester forester forester making decisions out of the
ignorance of tree biology. Those poor associates of trees in your area.
When you do something for a living beside convincing yes convincing people
to cut the wood out of their property maybe I will respect you. Otherwise,
get a life.
I addressed leaves and the abscission zones in another post.
And in case you did not know it, trees don't move, in the sense they do not
run from threats. However they are constantly moving in place.
If I think I need a comedian to help trees I will contact you. Other than
that thanks for sharing your views on trees. I will take them into
consideration when making decisions about trees and their associates.
Honestly its beyond the scope of your project. OK?
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