This may not be the right group to ask this question in but I am hoping some other gardeners have had this problem and found a solution.
I've got a neighbor across the street that apparently likes to garden/maintain his house to the beat of a drummer (not a diffeernt drummer, just a drummmer and a 28 piece band )..to enhance his listening pleasure he has installed outdoor speakers. HE enjoys it but (he did this as the weather was getting cold late last year (I am in northern NJ)and now with some warmer days happening, so is his 6-8 hour marathons of music) The noise makes the thought of gardening in peace a thing of the past for me. I have lived here for 14 years on a dead end street and its quite peaceful, or WAS until this character decided that his music must be shared with the world. I am perplexed that people cannot just enjoy the sounds of nature when working outside. Yeah sometimes I want to listen to some music myself but I use wireless headphones and no one knows I am listening to The Beatles as loud as I did when I was a thoughtless teenager. I mentioned this to him after a another neighbor (right across the street from him) called me to ask if I would speak to this individual about the loud music. That is when I heard "hey I have the right to play my music during the daytime".....apparently the concept of other peoples right to quiet is beyond his comprehension.OR he just doesn't give a S***~ which is more likely the case.
I have talked with the other neighbors and while they HEAR it and find it annoying they don't want to say anything (are most people deaf or just sheep?). Perhaps its because they spend most of the winter shut up tight (though the music comes through MY windows) and spend the summer in central air and still keep those windows shut tight. I guess I am weird, I LIKE fresh air........but now its polluted with noise that is so unnecessary.
I have spoken with the police and while there is a town ordinance again noise above certain decibles, I was told it was rarely enforced....besides I hate the though of having to call the police on a neighbor....not only does it go against my principles (though I have to admit I am ready to throw them out the window in return for some garden serenty) but it may open a bigger can of worms...a pissed off neighbor.
now, after a long winded post, my question.........
Have any other gardeners run into a problem like this and how did they resolve it (besides moving)?
(and a last minute thought though it should be saved for a different post).........I noted this am a whole row of 10' Leyland cypress are turing light green a brittle.........what is going ON this winter? What the deer don't eat, the wet soggy/frozen ground is rotting roots...anyone having this problem? Thus far I have lost a 20' weeping nootkantensis and the deer have eaten over 10 hemlocks, 16 arborvitae and utterly destroyed every euonymous I own (owned)...
I love the sounds of nature myself, but had this problem when I lived in the city on a normal street with neighbors all around me. But the shoe was on the other foot. It was ME who dragged my speaked outside of the house to aim them towards the back of my house while I played music to garden by. Nothing like your neighbors hearing Janis Joplin,Moody Blues, Pink Floyd or Allen Parsons Project(among others) on a bright, perfect gardening day.
But having said that, and knowing that I cranked it up loud enough to hear it in the back of the yard where all my raised veggie beds were, I will say that I lived about a mile from the Cumberland River and across that was Opryland. And every hour and a half the General Jackson steamboat came down at the ferry road to turn around in the river.........lots of steamboat whistles (I did love those, and knowing John Hartford was the Captain made it special) but the ruckus from Opryland including the fireworks on the 4th and at season's end, and on humid nights the various sounds were crystal clear made sleeping hard if you went to bed before the park closed at 11 during peak season.
All around me people owned lawnmowers. The ones with no mufflers. And weedeaters were just coming into the scene. Gardening and yard maintenance wasn't the quiet whirrl or a push mower or constant snip snip snip of pruning shears anymore. I respected my older neighbors and didn't crank my music up until I was sure everyone was awake. and anyone offended by the music, I obliged and turned it down. The surrounding city noises usually made it easier to tolerate. When the neighbor was that rare quiet that you'd not expect in suburbs, I didn't disrupt it with my music. But that was just me. And I still cranked it up when it was sunny and nice outside and I was doing serious garden stuff.
People are sheep. That the neighbor near you asked YOU to say something says people are reluctant to have confrontations anymore. There is no common decency in a lot of people now. I sat in our truck last night at a light, in a rural but populated town just 14 miles north of us and due to my cold, had the window up. From somewhere, the THROB of rap music was apparent, and despite that I realize I don't live in the city anymore and aren't used to this, my sensitivity to noise became apparent when I started looking for the offending vehicle. This town by the way is a college town, but not like Knoxville with UT, but a smaller, liberal arts college. The throbbing was audible thru our closed windows and we have a good sound insulation in our
1999 Ford truck. I heard myself repeating my mother. the words came right out of my mouth and I was appalled............"they're going to be deaf blasting that crap in their ears"
There has been a gap in politeness Rich. My mother allowed me to listen to my music, and it was the 60's and early 70's music, and it was disturbing to her. But I was not allowed to crank it up so loudly that it was broadcast to the neighbor's next door. It had to be contained within my own room, and my dad was quick to buy me headphones once he found out they were basically safe for me to use. And mom would check on me occaisonally to make sure the volumn level wasn't all the way up. I heard way louder when I went to concerts later on. The one time I had my music up loud enough for my parent's neighbors to hear it and something was said, my dad took my stereo away from me for a week. It taught me if I abused the privilege of having my own stereo and right to listen to anything I wanted, I would be punished for disrespecting other people's similar rights.
Perhaps its because they spend most of the winter shut up
I like fresh air too, and I love my music, but living up here in the country with nature all around me, and having a 74 year old neighbor up the driveway reminds me that I can't be disrespectful of her. She doesn't always like my music and I shouldn't impose my tastes on her. she only hears it when I have it on outside when she comes down the long driveway and closer to my yard. And that's not all the time. BTW, I now listen to modern folk, Celtic, World, some rock, blues, bluegrass,Cajun zydecoe,and a bit of Reggae. I have a 30 year old son who likes Reggae, and even that gets on my nerves sometimes..........it's only occaisonally that I listen to Janis. I like more compilation now. That neighbor hopefully will grow up and mature in his musical likes.
You're right about that. If the neighbor insists his rights are being infringed upon, he won't understand that he's infringing on other's. Oblivious. Buy the guy some headphones with a 100 foot jack.........................
Now regarding this part.........my immediate neighbor next door was a saxaphone player. And his son played drums. And despite that I love music, the jams and practices were enough to cause homicide. I made a deal with them (they liked my music, and across the driveway the other neighbors didn't mind my music either, but I lothed and hated their country music.......grew up in Nashville, over it, but because I dragged my speakers outside to garden sometimes, I felt it wasn't right to ask them to turn their music down) and they complied most of the time. When they moved, I talked with the new neighbors and we made a pact of sorts. When Alex was sleeping, I didn't bring my speakers outside. He'd call out to me to let me know he was up, and I was free to carry on. When we had parties was another story all together.... But most of the time we contained our ruckus inside. Not too often did the police come by because of music cranked loudly.
Of course there was the party for Squire and Spider out in Aurora, Colorado that was called in for loudness, back in 1978 and when they pounded on the door, I answered it and they stood there with their mouths open looking confused. This was the era back then of Sidewalk commando's. Aurora was growing at a rate of 150,000 a year and the cops had attitudes. I lived with bikers, being a little hippie mama myself...you get my drift. They were dumbfounded. Apparently the neighbor's next door had called in to report an extremely raucous and loud party going on at the corner of 16th and Lima. It was our house. But when I opened up the door to them, they could barely even hear music, let alone what had been called in.
I told them we did have a party going on, but it was downstairs in the basement. Because the basement door was closed, and the basement was underground with just ground level windows, you didn't hear the 40+ bikers and assorted people partying their asses off below. What the neighbors heard was the true party when Moose opened one casement window to let out the smoky air. After that, we kept the windows closed. The police apologized to me for coming by because obciously it wasn't disturbing the peace and they went their merry way. Downstairs 40+ bikers drinking two kegs of beer, rowdying, yelling, stereo cranked up to unbelievable levels of music, laughter, and basic pandemonium (lots of wasted people that night) went without a hitch. Had the police heard something louder, they would have had quite a bust on their hands.................................nothing major in illegals as much as just that it was a serious biker party. I had a quad stereo which was unexpected out of a chick in those days, and over
3000 albums so I was always the dj............
The next morning by the way, there was 3 inches of beer on the floor, and a trashcan of broken beer bottles once we trashed and cleaned the basement party room up. It took a long box for the clean up.....And I have pictures of everyone soaked in beer during that party, too. Everyone's hair looked wonderful for a few days (my boys slept thru the whole thing once I was able to get them to GO to sleep, parties always wired them up)
My husband pointed out pits in our truck windshield yesterday and told me it was volcanic acid rain that was pitting the windshield. Apparently there's been quite a bit of it lately. And windshield glass isn't totally glass so it pits with volcanic acid rain. If you're in the city, you're also getting problems in the moisture from the emmisions from our cars, factories and such. Sad to think we're polluting this planet faster than it can heal. I won't soapbox on this one...........
What
Up in the Smokies, because there are so many more tourists and cars, they're seeing more effects in the trees and such from the pollution. (the area has no car emissions control). Add to that, that anthrachnose has decimated a large portion of the dogwood population, pine beetles are killing the Jack pines at alarming rates, and the devistation of the trees from gypsy moths.........well Nature goes marching on....................
Thus far I have lost a 20' weeping
sounds like time to have some deer in the freezer..................if we don't thin the herds down (there are no preditors in the city except for us, and that responsibility falls to us to maintain a balance) you'll suffer from the excess and overfed states of them by more incidents of lime disease and accidents. nuff said. madgardener
heck I'd set up my own system and make sure it pointed towards him and then put on some high class classical and make sure it was louder than his and let it rip.
-- "Knowledge is a 3 edged Sword" Kosh on Babylon 5
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better yet... get your shotgun and/or rifle take it outdoors when they are and clean it right in front of them. most people dominate by intimidation. you need to give them something to think about. be sure to get some tape on just how obnoxious this is...and keep records of how often and long it happens. Ingrid
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the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
starlord heck I'd set up my own system and make sure it pointed towards him and
Oh don't think that hasn't been running through my head.........I have in my studio (I am an artist) a surround sound system by Bose that could outblast any of the tower speakers I used to have in decades past......and a few cds of some counter-culture groups like Throbbing Gristle that would probably break a few windows.........it takes very little brains to blast music. And if there weren't other neighbors who would get disturbed (not to mention my wife ) I would blast MY stereo so I wouldn't know he existed. however..............that wouldn't permit me to enjoy the sounds of nature, which I consider to be the status quo (funny how many think the status quo is the sound of THEIR stereos )
actually I listen to mostly classical music..very little of which has the annoying bass found in any 'modern' music....not to belittle New Age (which I have for when I work late nights) but even the loudest classical (war of 1812 oveture, Sousa marches, etc.) is not as disturbing as hour after hour of Cher and disco music which this guy seem to enjoy)....played out back while he works in front. I even showed him my wireless headphones the other day after asking him again to turn it down, but again I got "why can't I listen to music when its 2 pm in the afternoon (to which I answered BECAUSE I cannot enjoy peace and quiet!.thats when he gets this quizzical look like "what do you want to listen to THAT for??)))) .he doesn't LIKE the idea of having to wear headphones, LOL.........but doesn't want to listen to the fact that he is taking away the right of others NOT to hear his music.. I dunno, maybe there is something wrong (mentally) with this guy, that's what my wife thinks. He is ALWAYS home except for short trips to stores....yet he is a young guy (
I dunno, maybe I am just in the process of becoming an old fart, lol. Maybe I should just put an ice pick through my eardrums and be done with it . I guess I am expecting too much out of people...after all , I AM in New Jersey.
I have the same problem. One thing that helped was to get a copy of the noise ordinance for my town. The definition of noise was based on a decibel level. I started measuring the neighbors music volume and he was in in violation of the ordinance. With this evidence in hand I was able to get the town to order the volume to be lowered. Unfortunately, it looks like taking the neighbor to court will be an annual affair as the the volume began to creep up again at the end of last summer.
I did just that - using Wagner to fend off some particularly repellant (c)rap music from the neighbour. They got the message pretty quickly.
A friend had an even better solution. He called his mother, who called the mother of the 30 somethings next door, who called her children (well that's what they were acting like) and told them to cool it.
I had a neighbor who kept 17 dogs. The stench and flies were bad enough to make backyard gardening undesirable. I checked local ordinances and the neighbor was in compliance with all the laws. There was really nothing I could do, but did more indoor gardening until they finally sold and left. I would have traded a boom box at full volume in trade of the stench. Carefully check your ordinances about noise.
You have obviously pursued all, or most of the reasonable solutions -- talking both neighbors, police, and the offender. "I have a right to..." is maddening. "Yes, the noise ordinances apply after 10pm, but you *are* bothering a number of people." Living with (next door to) other people often involves compromise. Not laying down and being walked over, but some reasonable accomodation. Is this neighbor outdoors 6 hrs/day? Could he be persuaded to cut off the speakers when he doesn't require musical accompaniament to his gardening? Or gently asked to cut the volume a bit? Many of these controversies become highly confrontational and emotional. You'd be surprised (maybe) at how many people will back down when approached gently. Not "your f'ing noise is driving me nuts" but "could you tune down your stereo a little -- it really bothers me." It bothers me when neighbors have a late night party with music; it bothers me when the guy across the street regularly blow-dried (leaf blower) his car collection (3). I live in suburbia. *I* am not quirky, but everyone else is. :-) If I wanted complete silence, I'd move to the country.
Oh, yeah. If someone throws a rock at you, the "solution" is to throw a bigger rock. There are *many* solutions to problems that don't involve tit for tat. I once cranked up Mozart on my car radio (open windows) to 'make a point' with the unwelcome music coming from an adjacent car in a parking lot. Result: I don't really enjoy Mozart at
50 decibels; I risked/provoked confrontation with unknown people; they didn't lower their volume (fortunately they didn't leap out of their car and smash my windows), and AFAIK, I was the only one left feeling a bit foolish. You don't "teach" people to be polite and accomodating by matching or exceeding their rudeness.
Invite some of the sheep over to your house for tea. Once they're there, bring up the speaker guy. Let everyone chime in about how they don't like it, and then suggest that you all go over to the guy's house together to let him know it's not just you that's annoyed.
Another thought: If he doesn't live alone, approach someone else who lives in the house.
And one last idea: Put up a six-foot privacy fence entirely on your side of the lot line, and have the side facing him covered with some ugly sound absorbing material. Let him know that the ugly crap facing his house is because he makes too much noise, but you'd be happy to take it down if he stopped making noise.
Rich wrote in news:Szl0c.12998$TF2.971 @nwrdny02.gnilink.net:
This post has been rated PG-13. Parental guidance is suggested.
As a Man, you always hate go ask somebody else for help or admit to yourself you can't handle a problem the masculine way, viz. go over and knock your neighbor's skull open, or at least shove a dirk in his ribs and break off the handle. However, civilized people supposedly don't act that way, and upon reflection, I guess it wouldn't make me too happy if an crazed neighbor came over wielding a brace of ginsu knives he finally discovered a use for. Cleaning the mess up later would be quite a hassle, as well as needing to go get tested for blood diseases and keeping certain peoples off their doughnut breaks with all the questioning.
So rather than rationalizing your right to action and dropping a couple of bombs on your neighbor just because you can, I suggest you find out exactly what the legal decibel limit is, and be prepared to learn something about sound, as measuring devices may vary in their attentuation of certain frequencies, find out if your neighbor is in violation. If so, you may proceed to the next phase, which may require more gump than you have, certainly more gump than your neighbors and you should be prepared to face the possiblity that you will fail, but also the possibility that you will succeed. You will want to document every violation, and even be prepared to make a nuisance of yourself to the police, who likely will not do anything unless they witness the violation and have suitable measuring devices on hand. You could always ask them to leave a note, though. After nothing happens and you have accumulated enough evidence, you can take your case to the local magistrate and have a court order placed on your neighbor. You may wish to inquire ahead of time what is suitable as evidence. (If they will not, you escalate your case and sue the locality for selective/none enforcement of laws). This will likely piss off your neighbor, but he, being an unreasonable person, isn't someone you want as a friend anyway. However, your other neighbors may appreciate you and sing "hail to the chief" whenever they see you. Your noisy neighbor, having lost his only source of solace in world, will after a time been become deranged and one day march on your house with murderous intent, bearing his wedding gift, a brace of ginsu knives. You may then take that opportunity to gun him down. Later, a bevy of gorgeous young women who enjoy nude sunbathing will move into the vacated premises, which can now be had a bargain price due to the unfortunate circumstances. You live happily ever after.
Actually he does not have the right to play his music so loud it disturbs people, be it an entire neighborhood or just one person, either day or night. You would be perfectly justified to call the police and complain. The police will then visit the guy and tell him to turn it down. You may have to call more than once, as we had to do when our nieghbor across the stret decided to play his radio so loud we could feel the sound vibrations and his son decided he wanted a rap group. We were serenaded all day every day with offensive rap, the anti-police violence glorifying stuff where every other word is a profane one. They were so loud the police had to drive up bumper touching their garage door and blast his siren to be heard. It took several calls as well as several visits asking them to turn the stuff down but they finally did and we have a peacefull neighborhood again. I believe if they get enough complaints they are ticketed and fined and if they still won't comply I believe they end up in court.
I think they're just sheep :)
Perhaps its because they spend most of the winter shut up
I can understand you not wanting to call the police or have an irritated neighbor. The guy we had to call on is a biker and believe me calling the police was a last resort but a neccessary one since the noise was disturbing my mother who is ill and was loud enough to hear and make out the words even with the tv up loud and the house closed up. Another thing you might try is pointing your stereo spekers at the guys house and playing the music of your choice as loud or louder than his every time he's outside. Then when he stops annoying the neighborhood you stop :) Another thought, you could send an annonymous gift of a set of headphones and a small tape player and maybe talk the rest of the people in the area into contributing.
Well like I said, we called the police. Worked for us and was probably the only thing that would have worked.
I'm in southeast Texas and I don't think anything actually quit blooming but the trees can't decide if they should bud or not. And everyone got snow this year except us.
Hmmm sounds familiar :) I worked in a record shop all through high school and I listened to everything from Yes to Z Z Top to Bach. Especially since the record companies gave away free records (cheap is good but free is better)
I turn my music up but not so loud it sounds like you're under the speakers three houses away :) And I try to not annoy the neighbors. Mostly I have earphones and a walkman outside.
We have a neighbor who likes to cut the grass around 6:30 am during the spring and summer, with the loudest mower on the planet. She's pretty fast though so we just ignore her :)
Boy you got that right about people being sheep :) Around here the loud music from cars is either rap or country, in which case it's a loud throbbing or a loud whiney sound (obviousy I'm not a big country fan) Have you ever noticed that these kids all have this dazed expression, kind of like shell shock?
There is no politeness anymore and most people think only of themselves and thier own gratification. Sad but it's what the schools seem to be teaching now.
Your taste in music sounds remarkably familiar :) I was fortunate to grow up in a house where we listened to just about every kind of music possible. When I was a teenager my mom and I had similar taste in music :) She was big on Rod Stewart and liked some of David Lee Roth's stuff. Now she likes some stuff like Vangelis and some of the World music, and Cajun :) For me it's all sorts of music as long as it can transport me from the everyday stuff
ruckus
With our budding rap group across the street it was practice from 12 pm to about 3 am Every day. I can deal with someone having a band and practicing a couple of hours, but this just got to be rediculous. They needed to go rent practice space if they were serioud about it. All my friends were in bands and never did they impose 12 to 15 hours of thier rehearsing on anyone.
LOL Most of the bikers I've known have been nice, polite, considerate people. Generally it's the biker wannabe's who are obnoxious.
We don't have deer around here, too much in the city, but there's quite a population out by NASA and the whole area out that way is a bird sanctuary so we see lots of wetland birds and hawks and such. I am happy not to have to deal with alligators though (there are some around in other areas), snakes are more than enough. Can't wait for the geckos to start singing again though :)
"starlord inreach.com>" heck I'd set up my own system and make sure it pointed towards him and
If he does that, I wish I knew someone on that street to spend a few days with. Nothing better than a neighborhood scrap and eating popcorn with a beer in the front yard.
I agree people are sheep, I spent months agonizing over how to tell my neighbours not to put their garbage on the corner of our property during the weekly pick-up. Finally, my husband just came right out and said it. Being young and first home owners, they didn't realise it was bothering me. They stopped doing it so they're pretty decent people. :)
My neighbours on the other side complains that their neighbour has a lot of parties on weekends and cars plugged up our street. She never spoke to them about it and just kept complaining to me. One day she wanted to enlarge her driveway and the contractor offered her a discount if she can get someone else to widen theirs. She asked those neighbours, they didn't need to widen, but did so anyways to accomodate some of their guests and appease a neighbour.
As far as noise goes, there was a young family near my parent's home that had loud music every weekend but over time, they either lost interest in it or don't have time to spend in the backyard anymore. Wait it out, it can't get worse and might get better. Maybe you can chat with them about music you both like and he can pop those CD's in when he see you in your garden? Or you can ask him to turn his stereos to face someone else's house... ;P
I've lived in places where the people next door would crank their boom boxs up and when asked to lower them down a bit, all they did was crank them up more, so then I'd go home turn on mine with the Japanese Superhero records at the ready and let'm have it. In a short time they'd turn off theirs and I'd turn off mine.
And someone throw a rock at me? They'd better go hide, this Vietnam vet doesn't turn the other cheek.
-- "Knowledge is a 3 edged Sword" Kosh on Babylon 5
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