NEIGHBORS STEREO destroys serenty of the garden

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This may not be the right group to ask this question in but I am hoping some other gardeners have had this problem and found a solution.
I've got a neighbor across the street that apparently likes to garden/maintain his house to the beat of a drummer (not a diffeernt drummer, just a drummmer and a 28 piece band <BG>)..to enhance his listening pleasure he has installed outdoor speakers. HE enjoys it but (he did this as the weather was getting cold late last year (I am in northern NJ)and now with some warmer days happening, so is his 6-8 hour marathons of music) The noise makes the thought of gardening in peace a thing of the past for me. I have lived here for 14 years on a dead end street and its quite peaceful, or WAS until this character decided that his music must be shared with the world. I am perplexed that people cannot just enjoy the sounds of nature when working outside. Yeah sometimes I want to listen to some music myself but I use wireless headphones and no one knows I am listening to The Beatles as loud as I did when I was a thoughtless teenager. I mentioned this to him after a another neighbor (right across the street from him) called me to ask if I would speak to this individual about the loud music. That is when I heard "hey I have the right to play my music during the daytime".....apparently the concept of other peoples right to quiet is beyond his comprehension.OR he just doesn't give a S***~ which is more likely the case.
I have talked with the other neighbors and while they HEAR it and find it annoying they don't want to say anything (are most people deaf or just sheep?). Perhaps its because they spend most of the winter shut up tight (though the music comes through MY windows) and spend the summer in central air and still keep those windows shut tight. I guess I am weird, I LIKE fresh air........but now its polluted with noise that is so unnecessary.
I have spoken with the police and while there is a town ordinance again noise above certain decibles, I was told it was rarely enforced....besides I hate the though of having to call the police on a neighbor....not only does it go against my principles (though I have to admit I am ready to throw them out the window in return for some garden serenty) but it may open a bigger can of worms...a pissed off neighbor.
now, after a long winded post, my question.........
Have any other gardeners run into a problem like this and how did they resolve it (besides moving)?
(and a last minute thought though it should be saved for a different post).........I noted this am a whole row of 10' Leyland cypress are turing light green a brittle.........what is going ON this winter? What the deer don't eat, the wet soggy/frozen ground is rotting roots...anyone having this problem? Thus far I have lost a 20' weeping nootkantensis and the deer have eaten over 10 hemlocks, 16 arborvitae and utterly destroyed every euonymous I own (owned)...
rich haynes
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I love the sounds of nature myself, but had this problem when I lived in the city on a normal street with neighbors all around me. But the shoe was on the other foot. It was ME who dragged my speaked outside of the house to aim them towards the back of my house while I played music to garden by. Nothing like your neighbors hearing Janis Joplin,Moody Blues, Pink Floyd or Allen Parsons Project(among others) on a bright, perfect gardening day.
But having said that, and knowing that I cranked it up loud enough to hear it in the back of the yard where all my raised veggie beds were, I will say that I lived about a mile from the Cumberland River and across that was Opryland. And every hour and a half the General Jackson steamboat came down at the ferry road to turn around in the river.........lots of steamboat whistles (I did love those, and knowing John Hartford was the Captain made it special) but the ruckus from Opryland including the fireworks on the 4th and at season's end, and on humid nights the various sounds were crystal clear made sleeping hard if you went to bed before the park closed at 11 during peak season.
All around me people owned lawnmowers. The ones with no mufflers. And weedeaters were just coming into the scene. Gardening and yard maintenance wasn't the quiet whirrl or a push mower or constant snip snip snip of pruning shears anymore. I respected my older neighbors and didn't crank my music up until I was sure everyone was awake. and anyone offended by the music, I obliged and turned it down. The surrounding city noises usually made it easier to tolerate. When the neighbor was that rare quiet that you'd not expect in suburbs, I didn't disrupt it with my music. But that was just me. And I still cranked it up when it was sunny and nice outside and I was doing serious garden stuff.

People are sheep. That the neighbor near you asked YOU to say something says people are reluctant to have confrontations anymore. There is no common decency in a lot of people now. I sat in our truck last night at a light, in a rural but populated town just 14 miles north of us and due to my cold, had the window up. From somewhere, the THROB of rap music was apparent, and despite that I realize I don't live in the city anymore and aren't used to this, my sensitivity to noise became apparent when I started looking for the offending vehicle. This town by the way is a college town, but not like Knoxville with UT, but a smaller, liberal arts college. The throbbing was audible thru our closed windows and we have a good sound insulation in our 1999 Ford truck. I heard myself repeating my mother. the words came right out of my mouth and I was appalled............"they're going to be deaf blasting that crap in their ears"
There has been a gap in politeness Rich. My mother allowed me to listen to my music, and it was the 60's and early 70's music, and it was disturbing to her. But I was not allowed to crank it up so loudly that it was broadcast to the neighbor's next door. It had to be contained within my own room, and my dad was quick to buy me headphones once he found out they were basically safe for me to use. And mom would check on me occaisonally to make sure the volumn level wasn't all the way up. I heard way louder when I went to concerts later on.<g> The one time I had my music up loud enough for my parent's neighbors to hear it and something was said, my dad took my stereo away from me for a week. It taught me if I abused the privilege of having my own stereo and right to listen to anything I wanted, I would be punished for disrespecting other people's similar rights.
Perhaps its because they spend most of the winter shut up

I like fresh air too, and I love my music, but living up here in the country with nature all around me, and having a 74 year old neighbor up the driveway reminds me that I can't be disrespectful of her. She doesn't always like my music and I shouldn't impose my tastes on her. she only hears it when I have it on outside when she comes down the long driveway and closer to my yard. And that's not all the time. BTW, I now listen to modern folk, Celtic, World, some rock, blues, bluegrass,Cajun zydecoe,and a bit of Reggae. I have a 30 year old son who likes Reggae, and even that gets on my nerves sometimes..........it's only occaisonally that I listen to Janis. I like more compilation now. That neighbor hopefully will grow up and mature in his musical likes.

You're right about that. If the neighbor insists his rights are being infringed upon, he won't understand that he's infringing on other's. Oblivious. Buy the guy some headphones with a 100 foot jack.........................

Now regarding this part.........my immediate neighbor next door was a saxaphone player. And his son played drums. And despite that I love music, the jams and practices were enough to cause homicide. I made a deal with them (they liked my music, and across the driveway the other neighbors didn't mind my music either, but I lothed and hated their country music.......grew up in Nashville, over it, but because I dragged my speakers outside to garden sometimes, I felt it wasn't right to ask them to turn their music down) and they complied most of the time. When they moved, I talked with the new neighbors and we made a pact of sorts. When Alex was sleeping, I didn't bring my speakers outside. He'd call out to me to let me know he was up, and I was free to carry on. When we had parties was another story all together....<GBSEG> But most of the time we contained our ruckus inside. Not too often did the police come by because of music cranked loudly.
Of course there was the party for Squire and Spider out in Aurora, Colorado that was called in for loudness, back in 1978 and when they pounded on the door, I answered it and they stood there with their mouths open looking confused. This was the era back then of Sidewalk commando's. Aurora was growing at a rate of 150,000 a year and the cops had attitudes. I lived with bikers, being a little hippie mama myself...you get my drift. They were dumbfounded. Apparently the neighbor's next door had called in to report an extremely raucous and loud party going on at the corner of 16th and Lima. It was our house. But when I opened up the door to them, they could barely even hear music, let alone what had been called in.
I told them we did have a party going on, but it was downstairs in the basement. Because the basement door was closed, and the basement was underground with just ground level windows, you didn't hear the 40+ bikers and assorted people partying their asses off below. What the neighbors heard was the true party when Moose opened one casement window to let out the smoky air. After that, we kept the windows closed. The police apologized to me for coming by because obciously it wasn't disturbing the peace and they went their merry way. Downstairs 40+ bikers drinking two kegs of beer, rowdying, yelling, stereo cranked up to unbelievable levels of music, laughter, and basic pandemonium (lots of wasted people that night) went without a hitch. Had the police heard something louder, they would have had quite a bust on their hands.................................nothing major in illegals as much as just that it was a serious biker party. I had a quad stereo which was unexpected out of a chick in those days, and over 3000 albums so I was always the dj............<g>
The next morning by the way, there was 3 inches of beer on the floor, and a trashcan of broken beer bottles once we trashed and cleaned the basement party room up. It took a long box for the clean up.....And I have pictures of everyone soaked in beer during that party, too. Everyone's hair looked wonderful for a few days <GBSEG> (my boys slept thru the whole thing once I was able to get them to GO to sleep, parties always wired them up)

My husband pointed out pits in our truck windshield yesterday and told me it was volcanic acid rain that was pitting the windshield. Apparently there's been quite a bit of it lately. And windshield glass isn't totally glass so it pits with volcanic acid rain. If you're in the city, you're also getting problems in the moisture from the emmisions from our cars, factories and such. Sad to think we're polluting this planet faster than it can heal. I won't soapbox on this one...........
What

Up in the Smokies, because there are so many more tourists and cars, they're seeing more effects in the trees and such from the pollution. (the area has no car emissions control). Add to that, that anthrachnose has decimated a large portion of the dogwood population, pine beetles are killing the Jack pines at alarming rates, and the devistation of the trees from gypsy moths.........well Nature goes marching on....................
Thus far I have lost a 20' weeping

sounds like time to have some deer in the freezer..................if we don't thin the herds down (there are no preditors in the city except for us, and that responsibility falls to us to maintain a balance) you'll suffer from the excess and overfed states of them by more incidents of lime disease and accidents. nuff said. madgardener

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Dear Mad.
I dunno, maybe I am just in the process of becoming an old fart, lol. Maybe I should just put an ice pick through my eardrums and be done with it <BG>. I guess I am expecting too much out of people...after all , I AM in New Jersey.
Rich ****************************************
madgardener wrote:

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I can tolerate some noise, but no, I don't much care for heavy bass music myself. I had neighbors who played Antrhax and their erratic beat that penetrated my windows/walls/and overrode my tv in the front of my house..they were behind my house to the side and on the next street. The beat *literally* made my heart beat irregularly!
I think you, and all the neighbors should get together in a co-ordinated effort and each time this person start playing music too loudly too long and those closest to him, all turn their speakers to the windows or outside even better and in unison, turn yours up as loud as you can with a wide variety of raucous music that will all clash and drown him out. When he shuts his off, you shut yours off. When he turns his on, y'all turn yours on. I think he'll get the message it's not just YOU and perhaps may get the message. Depending on the lack of maturity present, it could turn into a stereo system war, or it'll work. But as long as he thinks it's just you, he probably never will.
I have an anal retentive neighbor who is bothered by the fact that I have two older (77 and 81) cars that I don't actually drive much, since I'm physically unable to do so now, but I have to keep one going so someone else can drive me to the doc in one of them. I need a low vehicle to get in and out of and they all have pickups or tiny cars .. and I'm far from tiny. Both are licensed,the one I drive is insured, so both are legal. He went so far as to bitch to the city about them. I saw someone with a clipboard in front of the house looking at a new addition's to the household vehicle. She went out and talked to him.. and found what was going on. Her vehicle is a recent purchase from out of state and she's waiting for her title before she can buy plates. Well they thought it was illegal and I guess it just bunched this guy's butt up tight, He's a Rich too, and he couldn't stand it and called the city's code enforcement and the guy saw they were legal, and in fact had just gone to the hospital the day before to have blood work, roomie had just gone somewhere and come back in hers. Inspector said it sounded like someone was just being poopy.
Funny things bother people. I'm certain he hates my yard too as it has no lawn, I had 5' and 6' tall cosmos last year. I also planted raspberries in the yard last year, so this year there will be berry plants out there and he won't like that either. Thing is he's the neighbor's boyfriend and whenever they get married they're going to sell out and move and see my house as an eyesore sucking their property values down. Funny thing is, they didn't mind a bit when they moved in, as they paid less. LOL
Thing is, they're letting a trash walnut tree grow under the fence.. their fence. And the paint is peeling from their trim and the wood is starting to show moisture damage. That tree will eventually grow up into the side of the house and damage it, plus it's poisoning my grapes, so if they don't kill it, I will.
They know I'm unable to do anything out there, and I guess the guy is doubly irritated by anything my direction. But he sure ain't offering any kind of help. But I guess if he continues worrying about this place I'll point out things he would be better served worrying about on his side of the fence.
If I were younger and still able to actively garden on my own, then I'd be playing music loudly too .. to drown out their barking dogs. I don't like it when they mow their lawn either, stinks of smoke, oil and dog feces. Nor do I like it when they barbecue, the stench of lighter fluid smells just like the jet fuel when it spills at the air port. Then in the winter when they burn stuff, the smoke goes up, then down right in front of my house. Always stuff that others do that annoys, but can't get them to fix 'em. I ignore them, they need to learn to ignore me.
Janice

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Hmmm sounds familiar :) I worked in a record shop all through high school and I listened to everything from Yes to Z Z Top to Bach. Especially since the record companies gave away free records (cheap is good but free is better)

I turn my music up but not so loud it sounds like you're under the speakers three houses away :) And I try to not annoy the neighbors. Mostly I have earphones and a walkman outside.

We have a neighbor who likes to cut the grass around 6:30 am during the spring and summer, with the loudest mower on the planet. She's pretty fast though so we just ignore her :)

Boy you got that right about people being sheep :) Around here the loud music from cars is either rap or country, in which case it's a loud throbbing or a loud whiney sound (obviousy I'm not a big country fan) Have you ever noticed that these kids all have this dazed expression, kind of like shell shock?

There is no politeness anymore and most people think only of themselves and thier own gratification. Sad but it's what the schools seem to be teaching now.

Your taste in music sounds remarkably familiar :) I was fortunate to grow up in a house where we listened to just about every kind of music possible. When I was a teenager my mom and I had similar taste in music :) She was big on Rod Stewart and liked some of David Lee Roth's stuff. Now she likes some stuff like Vangelis and some of the World music, and Cajun :) For me it's all sorts of music as long as it can transport me from the everyday stuff

With our budding rap group across the street it was practice from 12 pm to about 3 am Every day. I can deal with someone having a band and practicing a couple of hours, but this just got to be rediculous. They needed to go rent practice space if they were serioud about it. All my friends were in bands and never did they impose 12 to 15 hours of thier rehearsing on anyone.

LOL Most of the bikers I've known have been nice, polite, considerate people. Generally it's the biker wannabe's who are obnoxious.

We don't have deer around here, too much in the city, but there's quite a population out by NASA and the whole area out that way is a bird sanctuary so we see lots of wetland birds and hawks and such. I am happy not to have to deal with alligators though (there are some around in other areas), snakes are more than enough. Can't wait for the geckos to start singing again though :)
Shell

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excuse me... it is not the teachers responsibility to teach children how to be polite or how to behave. that is what their parents are for, they had em, they should teach em to behave and have respect. My husband teaches high school and some of these kids dont know how to shut their mouths for 5 minutes. they cant stop talking, they dont know how to sit still for 5 minutes. they were raised with absolutely no discipline. this is a public CITY high school, but the teachers in the burbs are saying the same thing about their students.
I teach university kids and while they are somewhat more behaved they also cheat their asses off and very damn few of them were taught discipline at all. and this is a Catholic University. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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I agree with you, and there are some great teachers out there. Part of the problem is parents who don't want the responsibility of teaching thier kids because the kids interfere with thier lifestyle or they just plain don't care. Fortunately some kid learn good manners and politeness and compassion inspite of thier parents. There are 6 teachers, 1 ex-superintendent of schools (my dad), and several professors and even a few owners of private schools in my family.
Shell

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Further proof that we are barbaric in disguise. Disguised as civilized.

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I agree people are sheep, I spent months agonizing over how to tell my neighbours not to put their garbage on the corner of our property during the weekly pick-up. Finally, my husband just came right out and said it. Being young and first home owners, they didn't realise it was bothering me. They stopped doing it so they're pretty decent people. :)
My neighbours on the other side complains that their neighbour has a lot of parties on weekends and cars plugged up our street. She never spoke to them about it and just kept complaining to me. One day she wanted to enlarge her driveway and the contractor offered her a discount if she can get someone else to widen theirs. She asked those neighbours, they didn't need to widen, but did so anyways to accomodate some of their guests and appease a neighbour.
As far as noise goes, there was a young family near my parent's home that had loud music every weekend but over time, they either lost interest in it or don't have time to spend in the backyard anymore. Wait it out, it can't get worse and might get better. Maybe you can chat with them about music you both like and he can pop those CD's in when he see you in your garden? Or you can ask him to turn his stereos to face someone else's house... ;P
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heck I'd set up my own system and make sure it pointed towards him and then put on some high class classical and make sure it was louder than his and let it rip.
-- "Knowledge is a 3 edged Sword" Kosh on Babylon 5 www.starlords.org

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I have to agree. if you are unwilling to bitch to the police, or they are unwilling to do anything, then you have little resort unless you want to do some sneaky shit and make their life unbearable in the neighborhood. I really, really wonder why the hell there arent some laws with teeth about noise pollution. more than anything else unwanted noise drives people nuts and makes urban living miserable. an ugly house and turn your back cant see it. we got an ugly house next to ours but I can ignore it. but cannot get away from noise. I would be beating on their door making them just as nuts as they are ... and I guess I would be willing to go so far as to break some of their windows and tell em to sue me and I will counter sue you for disturbing the peace. or how about sneak up to their house at night while they are sleeping and use one of those shriek alarms. I am afraid the only remedy is being every bit as obnoxious as they are is all that is going to work. if it gets bad enough, then the other sheep like neighbors are going to have to get involved. Ingrid
"starlord" <starlord<*>inreach.com> wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:11:47 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

Oh, yeah. If someone throws a rock at you, the "solution" is to throw a bigger rock. There are *many* solutions to problems that don't involve tit for tat. I once cranked up Mozart on my car radio (open windows) to 'make a point' with the unwelcome music coming from an adjacent car in a parking lot. Result: I don't really enjoy Mozart at 50 decibels; I risked/provoked confrontation with unknown people; they didn't lower their volume (fortunately they didn't leap out of their car and smash my windows), and AFAIK, I was the only one left feeling a bit foolish. You don't "teach" people to be polite and accomodating by matching or exceeding their rudeness.
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I've lived in places where the people next door would crank their boom boxs up and when asked to lower them down a bit, all they did was crank them up more, so then I'd go home turn on mine with the Japanese Superhero records at the ready and let'm have it. In a short time they'd turn off theirs and I'd turn off mine.
And someone throw a rock at me? They'd better go hide, this Vietnam vet doesn't turn the other cheek.
-- "Knowledge is a 3 edged Sword" Kosh on Babylon 5 www.starlords.org
wrote:

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"someone". People are largely ignorant and self-absorbed. Blasting music is a right. F*** everyone else. It is a commonplace belief. To "teach" them to be polite is something they should have learned when they were 2 yrs old from their parents. Teaching adults and parents to learn basics sometimes requires more than a conversation... which has already occurred in this situation.
What seems left is mostly action, legal, political, retaliation (sometimes people only learn from experiencing things first hand), etc. Unless someone can provide examples of a kindler, gentler method.
You could erect high sound proof walls between properties- ordinances may stop you, plus hurts sunlight into yard - but I think this is akin to law-abiding putting jail-like bars on their windows so they feel safe locked up in a prison of a house.

DiGiTAL ViNYL (no email) Zone 6b/7, Westchester Co, NY, 1 mile off L.I.Sound 1st Year Gardener
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no, but it can help a great deal to viewed as pretty whacko and capable of anything. it is the perception that matters. of course, if they are the crazy ones dont do this. and under no circumstances physically attack a person of course, always be ready to run like hell. some times it helps to nag like their parents did. hell, I would even be willing to visit my local Hog Haven and offer a round if they drove over to the neighbors to have a little talk with them. Ingrid
You don't "teach" people to be polite and accomodating

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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starlord <starlord wrote:

Oh don't think that hasn't been running through my head.........I have in my studio (I am an artist) a surround sound system by Bose that could outblast any of the tower speakers I used to have in decades past......and a few cds of some counter-culture groups like Throbbing Gristle that would probably break a few windows.........it takes very little brains to blast music. And if there weren't other neighbors who would get disturbed (not to mention my wife <G>) I would blast MY stereo so I wouldn't know he existed. however..............that wouldn't permit me to enjoy the sounds of nature, which I consider to be the status quo (funny how many think the status quo is the sound of THEIR stereos <VBG>)
actually I listen to mostly classical music..very little of which has the annoying bass found in any 'modern' music....not to belittle New Age (which I have for when I work late nights) but even the loudest classical (war of 1812 oveture, Sousa marches, etc.) is not as disturbing as hour after hour of Cher and disco music which this guy seem to enjoy)....played out back while he works in front. I even showed him my wireless headphones the other day after asking him again to turn it down, but again I got "why can't I listen to music when its 2 pm in the afternoon (to which I answered BECAUSE I cannot enjoy peace and quiet!.thats when he gets this quizzical look like "what do you want to listen to THAT for??)))) .he doesn't LIKE the idea of having to wear headphones, LOL.........but doesn't want to listen to the fact that he is taking away the right of others NOT to hear his music.. I dunno, maybe there is something wrong (mentally) with this guy, that's what my wife thinks. He is ALWAYS home except for short trips to stores....yet he is a young guy (<40)
where was I? oh, lol........ but musical taste was never my complaint............its the volume......hell, I don't care if he is playing Vivaldi's 4 Seasons (my personal favorite since I was in college in the late 60's).if its loud enough to be drowning out my Beatles, Bach or hearing the grass grow, I think its time for one of us to move or get a conscience. I do have a rather bad temper and low tolerance for people who don't give a S*** .........a temper that takes a long time to blow but when it does it takes a long time to get passed it...and I am generally the loser in the long run, my wife is trying to get me to avoid that from happening as it did when we lived in apartments.
AS I type in my studio here, gee its a nice sunny day out, temp is now 50 DEGREES and guess what just came on
(SIGH)
rich
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One time when I was a lot younger, me and another guy took an old casette player and on a 90 min tape, recorded over and over from a sounds effect record the sound of an A-bomb blast. The other guy rigged a sound sencor chip and a timer chip into the playback side, after the last bit of each sound there was a tiny note that when the chip head it, would stop the tape from advancing, the timer chip would start and 10 mins later the whole thing happened again.
We planted it near a guys house who we didn't like and it was out of sight. It only lasted one night, but it drive him wild hunting for it in the middle of the night.
-- "Knowledge is a 3 edged Sword" Kosh on Babylon 5 www.starlords.org

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a very good point. maybe get a noise detector and hook that up to your boom speakers outside so every time they start up, yours goes off whether you are there or not. Ingrid
"starlord" <starlord<*>inreach.com> wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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Vigalante justice!
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It has happened right here in the trailer park I live in, when we had a bunch that lived just two doors down from me, they'd have their cars boombox going full blast during the day, it got to the point I got an old record player, put a full set of speckers outside and dug out my Jpanese Super Hero records and let'm rip. Then one of them walked threw my gate to reach down and turn it off, I stepped outside with my Japanese sword in hand and told'm if they touched anything they'd lose their hand real fast. So when the manager had to kick them out for none payment of rent, I was very happy to serve the papers on them. We've not had any troubles in the park since they left last summer.
-- "Knowledge is a 3 edged Sword" Kosh on Babylon 5 www.starlords.org
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