Making Rainwater Harvesting Illegal

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Ain't this a kick in the head? If'n it ain't one thing, it be another. I 'spose monsatano/novartis/sygenta/dow will soon be claiming the oxygen and sunlight. What an effed up mess, Billy. Never mind the thousands of Indian farmers committing suicide after being duped by monsatano.
http://www.alternet.org/workplace/137059/1%2C500_indian_farmers_commit_mass_suicide%3A_why_we_are_complicit_in_these_deaths /
Screw 'em.
Charlie
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-contested-rainwater18-2009mar18,0,5585599.story http://www.alternet.org/water/136477/the_latest_absurdity_in_the_fight_to_conserve_water%3A_making_rainwater_harvesting_illegal /
The Latest Absurdity in the Fight to Conserve Water: Making Rainwater Harvesting Illegal By Yee Huang , Center for Progressive Reform Posted on April 13, 2009, Printed on April 17, 2009 http://www.alternet.org/story/136477 /
A recent article in the Los Angeles Times described the latest absurdity in the never-ending search to quench the thirst for water: ownership of rainwater and, more precisely, the illegality of rainwater harvesting. Residents and communities in parts of Colorado are turning to this ancient practice of collecting and storing rain to fulfill their domestic water needs, including flushing toilets and watering lawns. Using this “grey” water, as it is called, relieves pressure on water resources and can be extremely efficient.
Many long-time water users, however, object to the practice.
These so-called water buffaloes argue that people who collect rainwater are taking away from their water by collecting the water before it has a chance to flow into a river from which they obtain water. Effectively, they argue, the rainwater belongs to them – they own the rain that falls from the sky as part of their water allocation, even though 97 percent of the rainfall that falls on soil does not reach a river. The bad news? The law in Colorado stands behind those water buffaloes.
Like most states west of the one-hundredth meridian, Colorado follows the doctrine of prior appropriation to allocate water. For all water uses that are non-domestic, a person must have a water right. Water rights are assigned a priority date, which is the date that the water use was initiated.
Under prior appropriation, these senior water users – many of whom have rights dating back to the 1800’s – have priority in times of water shortages based on the date of their initiation. Their water allocation is fulfilled before any junior users, who are often left with a nominal amount of water. People who harvest rainwater are “interfering” with the priority system by jumping ahead of all the senior users, who have the first right to use the water.
This dogmatic adherence to temporal priority blocks efforts to acquire water rights for newer or more efficient uses, such as in-stream conservation and recreation. These uses, initiated relatively recently, will always be subordinate to older, more consumptive uses. Ownership of water has always been a tenuous proposition. Water and water rights linger on the perimeter of traditional property rights, eluding the solid “property” categorization of items like land or salad bowls. Individual water molecules cannot be marked or identified, and water is in constant motion, swirling below, above, and around the earth in the global hydrologic cycle. More significantly, water is survival for the vast array of living creatures on this planet, so privatizing the world’s most precious liquid would necessarily create a divide between haves and have-nots. Whether or not water is definitively property has great legal implications for constitutional and civil claims, and courts have not given clear or consistent guidance. If, for example, water is considered a property right and the government required reduced water delivery to irrigators under the Endangered Species Act, those irrigators might have a valid claim for compensation under a Fifth Amendment takings claim. CPR Member Scholar Dan Tarlock blogged about this specific issue here. Categorizing water as a private property right also facilitates the commodification of water, which often ignores the common public interest in water quantity, quality, and viability.
Many water rights are colored by the public trust doctrine, which holds that certain natural resources cannot be privately owned and instead must be held in trust by the government for the use and benefit of the public. This doctrine, an inherent component of a water right, tends to support the argument that water is not a matter of private property. As inexpensive supplies of water dwindle, how water is viewed as a private property will become increasingly important to water allocation and priorities.
In other parts of the West, states are exploring the idea of rainwater harvesting. Santa Fe, New Mexico, became the first city to require by ordinance rainwater harvesting on all new residential or commercial structures of a certain size. Tucson, Arizona, became the first city to require rainwater harvesting to provide 50 percent of landscape-irrigation needs. Even Colorado has reconsidered its position, recently passing a bill that permits extremely limited instances of rainwater harvesting. It remains illegal for most individual residents to harvest rainwater.
Given an increase in population and per capita consumption, coupled with water needs to restore and maintain aquatic ecosystems, perhaps those water buffaloes need to lower their horns and let other creatures sip from the limited watering holes in the West.
Yee Huang, J.D., L.L.M, joined the Center for Progressive Reform as a Policy Analyst in December 2008. Her public interest experience includes internships with the Department of State in Vienna, Austria, and Windhoek, Namibia. © 2009 Center for Progressive Reform All rights reserved. View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/136477 /
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Charlie wrote: > ...Even Colorado has reconsidered its

Eff that. The rain that falls on my property is mine (if I can catch it) until I am done with it. It's not like I can actually destroy it.
What are they gonna do, send [strike]Janet Reno[/strike] Eric Holder in to burn down my house and family like they did in Waco if I don't comply?
Bob
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<Charlie> wrote in message> A recent article in the Los Angeles Times described the latest (snip)

Lordie!
The LA Times doesn't have a clue.
Captured rainwater is prime drinking water and it's a waste to merely consider it useful for flushing the loo or watering the lawn. "Grey water" is water that is preloved and has already been through the shower or the kitchen sink etc. http://www.rainharvesting.com.au/grey_water_recycling_1.asp

What planet are these water buffaloes from?
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In article

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-contested-rainwater1 8-2009mar18,0,5585599.story From the Los Angeles Times Who owns Colorado's rainwater?
The author, Nicholas Riccardi, is obviously a reflection of his urban environment, Los Angeles. Aside from his inability to use the vocabulary of gardening, he does, indirectly, call attention to where the neo-liberals want to take us (freedom of the market place trumps human rights). To that bright future, where if you want water, you call Bechtel, or if you want food, you call Monsanto.
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On 4/18/2009 8:59 AM, Billy wrote:

Don't shoot the messenger. The LA Times was merely reporting what is happening in Colorado.
Today's LA Times has an article on how some homeowners in California are capturing and storing rain water. The article mentions that some California cities are rewarding homeowners who capture rainwater for personal use. This is quite opposite of the situation in Colorado.
Different states have different laws.
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David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
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I was shooting the reporter because he referred to rain water as "gray water" thus obfuscating his report. As I'm sure you know, gray water is used water, but not sewage. After the first few minutes of a rain, the water is about as pure as you'll find.
It was an important "heads up" only slightly diminished by misleading vocabulary.

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In article

The scare here is beware of the acid rain. Tied into the idea that the snow is full of pollutants and the gist sort of becomes anything natural is bad. I do not believe this and have encouraged my kids to ingest as seems fit and on those warm pleasant rains to go about and dance.
STD disclaimers apply and please note I concur with the admonishment to not eat the yellow snow.
Bill
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This comes from the pollution of the environment. There is no clean up by the owners of smoke stacks, so the cost falls to the state (re:tax payers). This is call "Privatize the Profits and Socialize the Costs".

I was told that dancing in the rain, half naked, after a drought was awesome. AFTERWARDS, dealing with the paperwork, she told me that I should have had a privacy fence. Kinda hurts a guy's self esteem;O)

Funny, Frank said the same thing.
Speaking of "yellow snow", I noticed my daughters name written in the "yellow snow" outside our house. I asked my daughter about it and she said that it was a common thing for a boy to do, these days. She didn't really have a good answer, though, as to why it was in her hand writing.

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all rain is a bit on the acid side (dissolved CO2), however, depending on where you live and how filthy the air is you could be ingesting who knows how many heavy metals that get washed down with the rain.

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g'day dr-solo,
here again where is there any hard case evidence that there are any issues? could not rain water be on the acid side from some other factor?
and all that fallout that may be on rooves is it in a solluable form?
again as lots of folk are drinking rain water from their own tanks, and there is no evidence of a general pandemic in the hospitals, could you provide us some please?
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 10:51:51 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.com wrote: snipped With peace and brightest of blessings,
len & bev
-- "Be Content With What You Have And May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In A World That You May Not Understand."
http://www.lensgarden.com.au /
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g'day len, always good to have your nurturing advice and observations. The composition of rain water usually reflects where the air that carries it has been. Just before planting, in Mid-west, here in the USA, the rain water could be basic (high pH) because of the ammonia injected into the fields for (futile) fertility. [How anything that kills the soil, and leads to loss of topsoil can be called a fertilizer just shows how far the "double-speak" of Monsanto and Dow Chemical has invaded our language.] The rain is pure as pure can be after a short interval needed to entrain the pollutants out of the air.
People only need to use common sense in collecting it.
The water that dr-solo drinks requires Herculean efforts to make it presentable. Its' source is tainted with every imaginable natural and industrial waste.
There's so much pollution in the air now that if it weren't for our lungs there'd be no place to put it all. ~Robert Orben

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Is anybody else humming Tom Lehrer's "Pollution?"
The breakfast garbage they throw into the bay They drink for lunch in San Jose.
East coast version:
The breakfast garbage they throw out Troy They drink for lunch in Perth Amboy.
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
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wrote:

and that entraining leads to the sediment layer i get in the bottom of my tank (after 2 years barely a match stick thickness), i might add well below the flow off point for the water. yes we have had problems with our pool when we used tank water (well so teh pool water tester said) we needed to treat our pool with some copper based substance, he explaind because of those fertilisation techniques you mentioned this ended up drawn up into the rain water (mind you we get no issues when lots of rain tops up the pool only seemingly when it came out of a rainwater tank), now farms are a very long way away from us, anyhow the treatment worked, not so sure about the cause as we are still very healthy well apart from aged diseases. but yes farming techniques chemically driven still have a lot to answer for, land degredation being a big one.

lol billy lol, called uncommon sense these days.

and everyone around him suffers not hey lol?

yep but wouldn't that show as increased air ways health issues, which it no doubt does, but that gets no mention only the unsopportable calims of health risk drinking said rainwater.

With peace and brightest of blessings,
len & bev
-- "Be Content With What You Have And May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In A World That You May Not Understand."
http://www.lensgarden.com.au /
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In article

There was a technical advance in pollution control about 1975. A device called a bag house was introduced which captured small particles. So we could all breathe better. Nice idea. However the particles as small as they were would hold on to the gas about and rain would wash them down. Without the particles the gas just hangs about longer. Sort of reminds me of catalytic devices on wood stoves only on a larger scale. Seems to me no easy answer and media has yet to hint at teaming microbes and what it implies . Just what is wrong with the first lady and why would anyone want an organic garden?
<http://www.colbertnation.com/home may be having a skit on roundup right now. A start .......
Bill listening to birds song and this here music.
Poems from Tang, for string quartet and orchestra: III. Hearing the Monk Xun, Play the Qin by Li Bai (701 - 762) 6:18 Peter Pritchard Long: Rhymes (Orchestral Music) Classical MPEG audio file 2004
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Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

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On 4/18/2009 11:52 AM, Billy wrote:

When I see the muck that runs off my roof, through my rain gutters, and out the drains after the first rain of the season (generally after more than 200 rainless days), I can easily understand why rain water might be equated with gray water. The grayness of rain water is even worse if winds have deposited ash from wild fires onto the lee side my roof.
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David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
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g'day david,
"said, California cities are rewarding homeowners who capture rainwater for personal use."
be a sting in the tail of this one i reckon.
snipped With peace and brightest of blessings,
len & bev
-- "Be Content With What You Have And May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In A World That You May Not Understand."
http://www.lensgarden.com.au /
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there is a big movement in Milwaukee, Wisconsin for people to get rain barrels and capture water for irrigation because it lessens the burden on the sewage system.
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On Apr 19, 11:53 am, snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.com wrote:

here is the thing my husband, James pointed out to me in the early part of the article that was overlooked.........I am copying it to show it..........
" For all water uses that are non-domestic, a person must have a water right."
now what he's pointed out is individual persons, such as you or I are domestic persons. What they're wanting to insure is that NON-DOMESTIC persons, such as commercial industries, or farms don't harvest rainwater to cut back on expenses and gather rainwater that falls from the sky. It's clearly evident that unless you understand the wording, you can immediately assume that they're trying to "regulate the rain from the sky" for everyone's usage. Had James not pointed this out to me, I had already assumed what I thought was Colorado already imposing regulations. But they're imposing regulations on non-domestic persons, not individuals and "domestic" persons such as ourselves. I could live in Aurora, Colorado (where I once lived) and have a rain barrel and use it and not face any oppositions from their new laws.
The opinions that are expressed are only mine and my English husband's and don't reflect everyone elses views or opinions which I respect individually.
madgardener (maddie) gardening in containers in upper northeastern Tennessee zone 7a, Sunset zone 36 where I save rainwater every chance I can until serious mosquito season arrives.......(then I use a mosquito donut....)
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g'day madgardener1,
point taken.

could also be the thin edge of the wedge, gov's are good at that.
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 10:17:05 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote: snipped With peace and brightest of blessings,
len & bev
-- "Be Content With What You Have And May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In A World That You May Not Understand."
http://www.lensgarden.com.au /
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wrote:

Hey Fran!
Many americans have no clue. Cisterns were a standard feature with many, if not most, homes many decades ago, but with the advent of municipal and rural water, most fell into disrepair and disuse and now, for most people, are a forgotten relic. And still a danger to kids and others.

True. As is happeing in Oz, many in parts of our country should be preparing for tightening water supplies. As a matter of principle, and conservation, we *all* should be going this route.

Arrakis, House Harkonnen
Charlie
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