Design Notes: Collada Import/Joinery Detail; Mannequin-for-Scale-Viz


Rico, as promised; the exploded joint-detail Google 3D Collada-file- import seemed to work ok, using Blender and ACAD 10, and I'm pleasantly surprised it came in at perfect scale to my own posts as well:
http://www.sfu.ca/~rmacinty/Arch/JoinDetl.png
The only thing that appears missing is a peg-hole on the upper beam.
Blender has a direct Collada-import script and DXF/DWG export script, so conversion was more straightforward than described.
Don; As you might tell (see link image), your previous suggestion to add a "mannequin" for scale-visualization really makes a difference.
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All of those joints must be pegged, 2.5" dia I believe. I'm getting ready to venture into the post & beam philosophy myself on a smaller scale. Gonna build a drawing table the old fashioned way, 6' long x 3' wide x 30" high and every little thing counts cause the cost of the hardwood, red oak, is astronomical - no room for errors. I'm shopping for a Stanley 602 plane currently, for the top, that ain't gonna be cheap so I have about $200 set aside for it alone. I already have the chisels for the joinery and they're *scary sharp*, look it up. I made my own mallet out of a part of a hickory log from a tree in our front yard that fell over the road last Feb. Turned it on my lathe after I designed it in acad. Works excellent, heavy on the end, maybe 3 lbs, and ergonomically perfect. At least thats how it seems so far. I may have a different opinion after using it for awhile.
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wrote:

Roughly 1" according to a book I have, but I think more than one peg is used.

Rockin'... I have a feeling, if possibly wrong, that not all P&B uses, or can use, the same joinery as regular woodworking, and/or vice- versa.

When I'm blading in Vancouver, one of my main routes takes me by a small antique shop that sometimes features antique drafting tables in the window. They seem popular since they disappear almost as soon as I see them. People like adjustable tables and drafting tables are some of the most adjustable.

Razorblade.
My last name in gaelic means "Son of the Carpenter", so we'll see if I can uphold it. Clan motto is "Through difficulties". ;)
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Go get your feet wet, right now. Buy a cheap chisel, a sharpening stone, mallet and find a piece of raw sizeable wood somewhere. (around here you can get a raw piece along the road) Figure out what to do then get at it. In fact, get 2 pieces of wood and choose one of the joints on your plan and build that joint, to the correct size. You'll quickly get a feel for whether you like it or not. I wasn't sure if I'd like lathe work but I had to spend about $500 to find out. Since Jan of this year I have more than 800 hours on that lathe. Didn't know if I'd like stone carving, but right now I have about 50 hours into it over the past 2 weeks. Whats neat is that you remove only the stuff that doesn't look like what you want the end result to look like. You just keep stopping and looking at the thing from all angles and see what else needs to be removed. Thats a whole nuther way of looking at stuff. For example, I built a chair a couple months ago from reclaimed lumber. I started with a single piece of wood and had to keep adding stuff until it looked like a chair. I didn't do a very good job. Seems I cut stuff off better than I had stuff on. The chair functions fine but its not ideal. My wife loves it, but I know better. I'll build another one and it will be even better. Last friday night I sat on a chair I made, with my feet on a stool I made, my beer set on a table I made and all of it was on the deck I made. With my bare hands with no help from anyone, all paid for by me. Kind of a neat feeling. Now I need to learn how to make beer, then my world will be complete. (yeah right) :-)
BTW: All of those things, the chair, footstool and table were built from the old deck boards I removed from my own house, all weathered and gray with green algae on the bottom side, so they already look antique and valuable! LOL
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wrote:

I took a woodworking course in college and have already made some stuff then and since, if with power tools as oppose to woodworking hand-tools, except in college, where some chisels were used.

Sounds like fun.

I've done some sculpture in college as well. It was enjoyable, but not as practical as I'd like.
BTW, 'other' is actually faster to type by one letter than nuther. ;)

Cool, I did a few things with leftover lumber too, including a spiral table as a proof-of-concept (very reminiscent of the concept of that burnt-down house, the construction of which Pierre managed) and a snake-like sculptural lamp. Both items got snapped up, but I want to put them online, so they'll either have to be done again from scratch or simply modelled/rendered in 3D.
I also did a lamp out of, in part, dial test indicator clamps and metal rods. Remember that picture I posted awhile back of that makeshift toilet-flush lever? Well that was leftover from the project. :D

Soul/spirit counts.

Well why not? Many people make beer and it's supposed to be similar to wine in terms of ease-of-creation. Myself, one of my goals before my grand exit is to make my own "moonshine"-- at least one batch, just to have done it. Maybe I'll exit because of it. ;)

I just helped this attractive young woman take an old discarded metal Ikea futon-bed frame out the "Sept.1st. moving-day throwaway pile". It's amazing and shameful the stuff they throw away around here in Ottawa. While helping, I spotted an old chaise longue (tattered, but with obvious wooden integrity beneath) and a perfectly-good antique chair poorly-painted neon-blue. Take an easy weekend to strip the paint and sand it down and you'd have something you'd pay quite a bit for in the shops.
There is much wrong with our disposable markets.
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Oh ok, I think I understand-- it's Lolcats:
"...lolcats have 'a distinctly old-school, early 1990s, Usenet feel to [them]'." --Wikip.
I was reading about culture war, which lead me to internet phenomena, which lead me to Lolcats.
...Which lead me to suspect where you might like to spend some time: http://cuteoverload.com / Of course, right? ;)
BTW, this evening I just read/learned about draw-boring, which is knocking a peg into a hole that has its joint's mortise and tenon- holes slightly offset from each, thus drawing the joint tighter as the peg is knocked in. One site mentioned waxing (greasing) the peg, so there you go.
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Careful what you grease them with, don't want any nerve deteriorating VOC'ing going on. Use non-soy injected vegetable oil. Now, there's another way to do it that takes some of the complication out in trying to figure out how much to offset the holes. I've only seen this done once largescale but lots of times small scale. Saw cut the pegs along the longitudal axis to the 2/3 point. That is, 2/3 of the peg will be sawcut right down the middle. Then after its pounded into its final destination (use a block of wood to pound on, don't hit the end of the peg as you'll tear it up - flare it out, then it will never go in all the way, or, now that I think of it, make the pegs real long and let them hang out, instant hat hangers) a small wedge is driven into the saw cut on the opposite side, spreading the peg out. Sort of like the wedge on the end of a hammer handle. Use walnut pegs and maple wedges, looks oh so nice.
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Seior Popcorn-Coconut wrote:

Depends on how much you want to invest I guess. My son gave me a beer making kit for christmas last year and there it sits still in the box. I looked into it and I have to have 48 glass beer bottles first. Well I rarely drink so it would take some effort to collect them. Further, where do you put those 48 bottles once their filled? In the frig of course, and I don't see that happening. Plus, the entire process is sort of messy, time consuming, and requires additional things that must be purchased. For the little bit that I drink its just better to go buy a 6 pak and be done with it. Now back in my 20's, it was a different story.... heh

I can't argue with that. I've been gradually working toward a non-throwaway environment but I question if its possible. Just this morning my wife and I were talking about that. We're also trying to eliminate plastics from our lifestyle and thats even more impossible it seems.
Sliding around in the *Free* section of craigslist for bloomington this morn I came across some people that want to get rid of an upright vintage piano. So I'm trying to figure out how to go get it. Several things are not in my favor. 1st, they want it gone right away, its raining today, and I don't know if my truck can carry that much weight. Also, I need at least 1 person to help and then I'm not sure what that thing will do to the floor in our living room that was built to code. In my opinion the floor joists are inadequate, but it was inspected by gov't drones so that makes it acceptable to them, but not to me. To be safe I'd want to get under that crawl space and sister joists onto the existing floor joists and that crawl space is only about 3' high at that point - kinda cramped. Then, the whole thing needs to be stripped down, repaired and restored and then professionally tuned. You see where this is going right? My wallet isn't bottomless, and I don't like the idea of doing the restoration work (chemicals and all that) in the living room. I could do it in the workshop but then I have to move it again into the living room. I think by typing all this stuff out it helped me to see the light...........
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Does beer need to be refridgerated right away after it's bottled? Maybe you can bottle it in wine bottles.
I rarely drink beer or wine (although the latter is great in cranberry cocktail juice or with cheeses and a good French bread), so that's why I'd go with a hard liquor, which I can then add to my coffees, cocktails, baked goods, frosties, etc., and add different herbs, spices and/or flavourings to the moonshine base, for special liqueurs.

Wow. :) I've added beer to a few stews. Different kind of good I suppose. All the alcohol evaporates.

Like those kid's pop-rocks. ;)
What grades did you achieve? C-? All the way to A+?
Any secrets you'd care to divulge on the hi-grade batches?

I could get into beer after reading that.
^ Would make a good commercial: You casually walk up toward the camera with one in your hand as you say that.^ We could dress you in casual loose-fitting unpleated cordurory slacks and a smart-looking knitted v or turtleneck sweater.

Same here. I'm actually trying to reuse milk bags. In Vancouver it's plastic recyclable jugs, but here, it's bags, so I'm saving them expecting to use them as on-the-road snack or sandwich bags. It seems that some changes would do well to start at the other end with business.

It's aficionado I think.

I'd love to have an old free piano. Maybe once I get settled and into my PAB house. It would flatter the frame and the acoustics might be nice. Do you play the piano?
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Not bad.

Like a standard of anything of quality I suppose.

Wow again. Maybe I dislike drinking beer because I just haven't had any A+'s. What would you recommend for a store-bought A+ that I could get over here (Ottawa)?

That question was directed at Don, although anyone was welcomed to respond.
I recall CBC's Kids In The Hall's flying pig, who entertained people in boring line-ups.
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Sounds like I'd like that brew with a stew; and a Heineken with home- made chocolate chip cookies.

Do you know the way to San Jose, wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa-a... Deedle deedle deeee...
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When I was child in rural PA the neighbors had a piano and 5 kids our age and everyone of them received formal training. Hanging around with them at their house I naturally picked up on some stuff. The first thing I ever learned was the first part of that TV show called Wagon Train. Never got anywhere with it and left it alone. At the time I was taking trumpet lessons as Herb Alpert was all the rage at that time and I needed braces. The dentist told my dad to get that kid braces for $600 or buy him a trumpet for $150. I got the trumpet. A year later my younger brother got drums. I dropped the trumpet when I was 11 and picked up a guitar and was hooked, listening to the Beatles and all the stuff that was going on in the mid 60's. By the early 70's I regained some interest in keybords again due to the influence in the psychedelic shit that was going around, Yes, Emerson Lake and Palmer, etc. and bought a cheap Casio keyboard that was huge for about $50 at Kmart and started all up again. By 74 I dropped it again and went on my world tour for a few years. In the mid 80's my interest was piqued again and I got involved on a professional level. Over the years since I've traded and bought/sold maybe 20 or more various keyboard set ups and in the mid 90's I started getting involved with midi stuff. I had various triggers and just sold a midi-guitar on ebay a few months ago. In 1980 I had a friend that played keyboards in the Silver Bullet Band (Bob Seger) and he showed me some stuff, then he ripped me on a dope deal and we parted ways. I've never gotten beyond mediocre in any music stuff because my interests always wane. Much of music is repetition which bores me tremendously. When I sit down to play, guitar or keyboards, it is usually made up stuff, sort of like a 2 hour long medley, that goes from one end of the spectrum to the other. As I said, I get bored easily. My wife always says I'm the inventor of the 30 second song, all 500 hundred of them, strung together.

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I have 2 keyboards set up in my office right now, connected to 2 different amp rigs, and 4 more out in the garage. 2 Roland's, 2 Yamaha's and 2 more I can't remember. 4 of them are my son's that he bought from Trent Reznor about 10 years ago. Alot of piano playing is the *feel* of the keys (tacit) and nothing beats the feel of a straight piano as far as weight and resistance go. One of my Rolands has an adjustment for that sort of thing but it is just that. On an upright the opening of the lid allows the sound to escape into the area and installing mirrors or any hard surface on the underside of the lid can enhance the sound. If you want to get jiggy wit it you can have someone open and close the lid in rhythm to what you're playing to get a pseudo Lesley sound. Look it up. Anyway by the time I had arranged for Muff across the road to help me with his horse trailer the piano was gone. However I seen yesterday some has a free triple key organ they want to get rid of and it has a Lesley built into it. Yowza.....
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Don't forget to taper and grease them pegs and offset the holes so that when you drive the pegs in it draws the joint tight, but not so tight it splits the wood - specially after a few years and the wood dries out. Humidity has an effect on that stuff.
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I was at this guys woodworking shop up the road the othernight and I was completely blown away. He had just come back from a woodworking convention somewhere and had won a workbench in a raffle. It was steel framed and wood topped, 4' x 8' and had a foot pedaled hydraulic lift mechanism on it. Cool. Pump the pedal and it would raise or lower to whatever height he wanted. It costs $2000 and he won it! Lucky dawg. Anyway, walking from the house to his shop I saw this giant machine sitting outside and asked what it was. It was about 30' long and 8' high x 8' wide, all steel, and had a big square funnel on one end. Well, it was laying on its side and was the biggest *dust collector* I ever saw. He said it holds 120 construction sized plastic trash bags and has a 48" dia fan attached to a 30 hp electric motor. Jayziss! Instantly I started wondering why this guy needed that much dust collection hardware and in another minute I found out why. Man, I never saw stuff like what I then saw in my entire life, in fact, I didn't even know such things existed. And this was in that guys backyard shop. I'm still reeling. Oh yeah, he told me that if I want to use any of his stuff just say so.
**He is having a custom burner made that will collect the dust from his dust collector via an auger system. The burner will be 2 stage and very little smoke will escape from it and it will then heat his shop and possibly his house too. Pretty cool, using stuff that would normally go to the landfill to lower his energy costs AND he gets to write all of it off on his taxes because the wood and the machines are all business expenses. Smart.
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wrote:

My middle name, and leg, is wood, but I don't know that I'd particularly want to have a _drafting_ table (a drawing table is red and yellow plastic and made by Playskool) made out of solid wood. Solid wood moves too much and probably wouldn't stay flat enough to keep me happy. I'd go with doubled-up lumber-core plywood for the top and put on a solid wood edging with pencil tray.

A 602...? What's that going to do for the top?*
R
* Please note that I have a substantial subset of the Stanley planes on Leach's Blood & Guts web site - many for sale. :)
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Things have evolved since I posted that. Have you ever seen a drafting table with an airline attached? Mine will, sort of. The airline comes out of the wall to the right of the table. And yes, it will be a drawing table, not limited to drafting. The top will be at 15 degrees and the back edge will be anchored to the wall. Originally I was going to build this out of red oak, the old fashioned way, but things have changed and I will be using more conventional means. As far as the plane, the top was going to be biscuited 1x8 red oak boards that I would then use the Stanley 602 on, someone told me the 602 was the one I wanted. But I will bow to your expertise and ask your advice. I presume I want the longest plane economically feasible to use for this application. This is now just a hypothetical question, but I might still buy one anyway. Since I posted that message, I have found a local guy with a 56" wide stationary belt sander. And also, I am going to do as you suggested, use plywood for the top, I think 1 layer of 1" Baltic and yes I made dress the edges as you suggested, though the front side will have my Spiroll mounted on it. FWIW, I will be doing the full range of activities on this table from simple drafting and drawing up through airbrushing, watercolors and acrylics and beyond.

Jeeziss, that guy is infatuated with planes isn't he? LOL That 601 on this page http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan15.htm is gorgeous isn't it? Looks like the 605 would be better suited to what I was gonna do.
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wrote:

A 602 is for finer detail work and is handy, due to its small size. You need a range of planes to make all of them work well. It's like sandpaper - you can skip a grade in size, but it won't make the job any faster and will probably slow you down and give you inferior results.
Here's the short list of planes that any self-respecting woodworker would have on hand. Block - something like a Stanley 65 or 65 1/2 Smoothing - a Stanley 4 is standard, but I like the 4 1/2 - the extra width and mass makes a difference Jack - Stanley 5 or 605 Jointer - Stanley 7 or 607 - the longer versions (8 & 608) are more than most people need.
Contrary to what common sense would indicate, you don't necessarily go in size order like you would with sandpaper. The long jointer provides a long straight edge, but it's followed by a smooth plane to fine tune the edges when joining boards.
If you can get a scraper plane, do so. They leave the most marvelous finish - better than the finest sandpaper. The Japanese traditionally leave a planed finish for a number of reasons.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

Don't know how I missed this before but I'm on google groups so anything is possible I suppose. Thanks for the tutorial, gonna forward this to me email for future reference. I haven't done much plane work for the past few decades but rather enjoyed it in my youth. I have a small Stanley block plane but don't know the number and never used it much. Wait a minute, just went and looked and its not a Stanley, in fact it doesn't have a name at all, just says Made in China on it. And I have a small Stanley finger plane, 12-101 that I used about 20 years ago on a large 64" balsa wing I built for a friend. My original gameplan was to biscuit joint 1x8 oak boards together, flipping the grains alternatively, then cross planing them flat. I know that would have been a gargantuan task, just like back in the old days, and kinda unnneccessary considering my friend has a 56" planer, but I wanted to do it. Or at least try to do it. David Marks, from "Woodworks" was explaining the diff between sanding and scraping to me and it makes sense. Sanding raises the grain but scraping or planing shears the fibers flush and the feel is definately noticable. I understand the finish on a scraped or planed surface is incomparable.
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