Braille ATMs

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CA has at least one large wind-farm, I thought NM did as well. I thought thre were a few others.
I mean electricity not generated by burning petroleum.
I know that metals require alot of heat for shaping, alloying, etc., and nope, I don't know the figures for how much oil or coal the furnaces burn. But I'm not sure that's the point because making a wind turbine is a one time event, whereas running a home (esp. one that is energy-intensive) goes on and on.
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Yes...there are wind farms all over the place. The problem is that they generate a fraction of a percent of the electricity the country uses. In order for them to make a dent in our total usage, the area required is something on the order of all of the New England states combined. And even then you need to take into account the fact that the wind doesn't always blow hard enough. Yes, it's being used, but it's the proverbial drop in the bucket <bold><italics><underline> and it always will be a drop in the bucket, no more </underline></italics></bold>.

OK....what other options are there? How many are cost effective? How about effective at all on a mass scale at the quality level we've come to expect? I know of only one economically feasible one at this time.

Read the report I sited...look at the math done regarding the physical requirements (much less the infrastructure requirements). You'll learn that wind energy, on a large scale, is a boondoggle, too.
Hey...I'd love to have cheap, renewable, clean electricity. The fact is, we're not even close to being there yet. We've not invented the techology to make it happen.
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Meaning?
My wife's family has 7 children, all of which are rather intelligent, including the youngest in a PhD Chem program.
Or, does that make my in-laws low in IQ?
Or, maybe, you really didn't mean what you said.
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3D Peruna wrote:

Could it be, someone's been caught generalizing again...no, no way, not in this group.
--
Edgar

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If you want to take it onto a personal plane, well, *I* have a pair of relatives who are dim bulbs and have something like 12 kids - some of the kids are OK, some are totally whacked out, none are all that well-off.
But that's not the point. It isn't personally or specifically about various members of our respective families. It's something that seems to me to generally be the case. OK, maybe I should have added on a lot of hedge words and disclaimers, so mea culpa for not being politically correct - but don't try to lay a guilt trip on me by implying that I'm intentionally and personally and specifically insulting any specific person's family.

Merely that, from what I've seen, it doesn't seem to work that way most of the time. "Most" meaning, technically, anything more than 50%.
But I keep forgetting (being, as I am, PC-impaired) that these days, most of the time, people are increasingly prone to take even statistical info as personal insults, rather than looking at whether the statistic is valid and, if so, how it can be changed for the better - all of which meaning that one is not to express personal opinions that are PC or, at the least, are not in keeping with the norm/majority.
Personally, I think that competent, intelligent people *should* have larger families. So, better to instead ask (1) whether this gloomy-gus impression is reflected by actual statistics, and (2) if it is, why would that be the trend and how can it be mitigated.
At the same time, in purely statistical terms, if the average (i.e. 50% of the population) IQ is between 90 and 100 (it used to be 100 to 110 but it's dropped), and if 50%+X% of the population is under 130, then simple raw statistics indicate that there are comparatively few children of, for example, people with 160+ IQs, simply because relatively few people *have* 160+ IQs.
So, you in-laws are probably part of the minority. Given the statistics for educational levels, only a minority of people get a 4-yr degree in science, and an even smaller minority get PhDs in science. So if your in- law finishes the PhD, that's great but it wouldn't change the statistic that the vast majority of people do not get PhDs in science, and citing the statistic would not be intended as an insult to those who do.
And, last but not least - frankly, if someone can contest my gloomy impression with statistical info to the contrary, hey, that's be GREAT, I'd actually really like to know that my general cynicism is unfounded.
Additionally, if someone wants to say, well, that is not their own observation, that's OK, and if someone says they think I'm full of hot air, fine. But, sorry, the guilt trip doesn't work.
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Kris Krieger wrote:

While there are exceptions to every rule, my observations have been similar to yours... The majority of large families, that I've seen, are *not* society's brightest bulbs.
Notan
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It's sort of like the fact that most of the kids with whom I went to school *did* end up working in places like the GM plant and the Exxon refinery. Which is what, as I've prob. mentioned at some point (can't recall), my HS "guicance councellor" told me I would end up doing as a "dumb pollak" and that I therefore shouldn't even think about going to a 2-yr college, never mind Rutgers, and as a science major to boot. The point being that, yup, there *are* norms that exist.
The other point, tho', is that on eought to question the extent to which they exist merely as a function of, so to speak, "brainwashing". IOW, your kid goes to public school - well, if it's a low-quality school in an industrial or poor area, the chances are that most of the teachers are either burned out, or couldn't get better positions, so it's therefore also likely that the children will receive a less vigorous education, a lower quality education, and be more subject to the expectation that they will never leave that industrial or poor environment.
What would happen if, all other things (ethnicity, class, economics) being equal, the kids instead had, right from the start, an energetic, high- quality education and expectations of, or at least encouragement to, achieve, develop their abilities to the fullest? Even more radical, what if they also received a quality, nourishing breakfast before class? And I don't mean the junk that gets passed off as school food.
The whole point is that statistics do not have to be static. If they do remain static, much of that is because most people prefer stability to the uncertainties of change, even if the situation is bad or untenable. It seems to be that most of the time, people in situation X are mostly interested in (1) blaming someone because the situation is X (rather than taking responsibility for trying to change X, since that takes effort), and (2) having their kids follow in their footsteps because if the kids achieved more, it'd make the parents look bad. Sometimes, "tradition" ends up being just another word for "stagnation". I've seen families and neighborhoods like that, where the kids are DIS-couraged from "fantasizing" about being scientists, or architects, or whatever, by families and peers and the public 'school' as well. And usually, from what I've seen, having as many kids as possible seems to go along with the rest of the brainwashing that occurs. It's a vicious cycle.
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Those are piss poor stats when you start to analize them and look at the agenda behind them.

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It's not about being PC... I've seen examples like yours...12 kids and not particuarly bright parents (almost as if they didn't realize there was a connection to sex and pregnancy). I also have some relatives who've adopted many kids (too many, if you ask me), and they're screwed up, too--and it's obviously not genetic, but environmental.
I suppose my point is that perceived anectodal experiences do not make for a statistical analysis (this is the kind of crap that gets thrown around to "prove" human caused global warming -- and if you want an eye opener into how bad that field is screwed up, spend some time on http://www.climateaudit.org - start with "McKitrick: What is the Hockey Stick debate about?)
Observations can be useful -- and stereotypes exist for a reason, too. But in this case, I'm not sure there's enough to hang your hat on. It didn't offend me, either. Personally, I think the current social life in this country promotes stupidity. I've worked with enough kids to see that in the general population "being smart" is not cool. Some of them go out of their way to be stupid...and this is true regardless of family size.
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One factor.

Right.

And a coment made in a cynical moment also is not statistical analysis. I'll say it once more, mea culpa for not addin in the appropriate disclaimers. But I haven't seen anything that proves it to be completely 100% bogus. Again, it'd be *nice* to see some stats that prove the comment is just a blivet. Until then, it's my casual observation that it's more often true than not. Which doesn't in itself deny that your observation might be different.

I'm not sure it's a good analogy, because there is some science behind the warnings. And I have no patience whatsoever for the opposing notion of "we didn't cause it all, so we can pollute and multiply and screw the environment up however much we want".
Very few things are either-or situations; most are interactions between two or more phemomena. That being said, if something *can* be mitigated, it seems silly to simply let things continue getting worse.

Granted on all of the above. But it still seems to me that people who are more thoughtful are generally not very inclined to have more children than they can effectively rear and support.
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Didn't say that...only that the current state of climate science is very sad... The thing I've learned in the past couple of months regarding climate is that we know so little that we don't even know if any of the things we might do would actually mitigate any potential "problems" the climate might be having.
I'm against pollution, dirty water, etc... I have no problem saying that indivudals (and individuals running companies) should limit the negative impact on the environment. And, to that end, less government, rather than more, will eventually be more effective.
(PS - spend some time at climate audit...seriously. You'll be amazed..., even if the math ends up being above your head)
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surely it's clear that 'IQ' is a limited evaluation ? Nor does it correspond to Education. And that good character is more effective than both??
one should say "there, but for Grace..." since each one gets what they didn't ask for. it's the blessed few that realize it's up to themselves to move on up...the great thing thing is that anyone can do this for themselves whenever they take stock and accept the possibility. so beware defining persons, yourself especially - this thing was made to change!
adios
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I didn't add the proper disclaimers, but yup, you got that part of it.
The other part is that there are more people focused on procreation, yet forgetting about the care issue that you mentioned in your other post. Also, people living on gov.t support tend to receive an increase in that support every time they have another kid. OTOH, people working for a bank, a graphics shop, a computer company, a corporation, or, like you, as an independent small-business person, do NOT automatically receive an income increase if they have another kid.
((Note that I am not equating wealth with intelligence, because the two do not seem to correlate.))
And still another part is that, although some people *are* able to really care for *all* the kids, it's generally the case that at least well- educated people do tend to have fewer children, but invest more resources (time, care, attention, money) in each child. That's not something I just made up, it's a statistic. At the same time, people who are less educated are more prone to accepting the idea that, in terms of procreation, quantity is important. That's not something I made up.
And on top of all of that, poverty levels aren't exactly DEcreasing in the US. The average (or is it median - I get the 2 confused) income is, last I read, around $44K/yr, but the poverty level for a family of 4 is now at about $35K per year. More poverty usually means not only fewer opportunities for good education, but more significantly, poor nutrition, which has a direct influence upon brain development. Simultaneously, parents near or below the poverty level, working is low-paying jobs, which often tend to be less secure, would be under more stress due to financial pressures, and probably also work longer hours, leaving less time for taking care of kids. If that *is* combined with a greater tendency to beleive that quantity of children is important, well I'll just say that the scenario is not good. And if the kids also end up in the same lifestyle, and themselves have a lot of kids, the number of people in that position increases geometrically.
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Yup.

Please, that whole blivet is simply disgusting.
Even a bacterium (e.g., cells of E. coli) can stick a tube into another bacterium and inject genetic material. Well whoopie, these people can function at the level of an intestinal organism. Well doesn't that make me want to fall all over myself with awe and respect for them.
I have more respect for a tapeworm.

Precisely. And takes responsibility (ethically, financially, and in all other ways) for the outcome of those actions/choices.
Everyone makes mistakes, experiences errors in judgement, but it's one thing to take responsibility for them and at least try to correct them, or live with them if need be - it's a whole different ball of crap to just whine that "nobody's perfect" and we're all supposed to love and respect and cherish a meatblob who exhibits all the humanity of a botfly larva.

At least one of the most serious...

Well, I know what it's like to be little more than an unwelcome additional burden, so I have not even the smallest shred of even tolerance (never mind respect!) for people who act as tho' children are just *things*, or in the case of too damn many people, less impotant than their *things*, less important than their own warped little self-obsessed manipulative egos, less important than getting drunk or high. If someone doesn't want to rear the child properly and lovingly, then put him or her up for adoption so someone who is capable of love, care, and teaching can take care of the child.
Sorry but as much as I have tried to be tolerant and understanding of peole's plights, one thing I find unforgivable is having children and then giving them nothing but neglect and abuse and resentment and so on. If someone wants to foul up their own life, well, that's their business and I really don't care - but there is no excuse for putting a child through a meat grinder.

History, psychology, even myths and legends. This is an ancient truth, not some recent discovery. But a truth that some poeple simply are not capable of comprehending.
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ah, sadly, no. the makers esp like to move the reverse around... maybe you have to push the stick down, or pull a lever up... [ i'm thinking just German makes, for instance ] ... and then theres reversing the turn and wiper positions! :7
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[ ... ]

Oh... Well ya learn something every day ;)
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Notan wrote:

I would imagine that the manufacturer only makes one set of buttons, which end up being used on walk-up ATMs as well as drive-thru ATMs.
That's always been my thought when hearing this question, anyway.
-Pablo
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Blind friend of mine says the bill texture is different, but he is a great joker. He also really sails boats, skis, rides a bike, and has appeared on TV fencing. His favorite comment is "are you blind or something?" EDS

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Only if you take a hammer to them Don.......................one of these days lol..

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