I'm about to attempt building "Bob and Dave's Good, Fast, and Cheap Bench"...
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I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber that I had delivered to my home green... My 2x4x12s are green, and my 2x8s are green. I got a bunch of 2x4x8 that are STD-DRY Enough to make the bench top. My question is, can I use any of this lumber, can I still make mortise and tenon joins with green lumber? I didn't realize I needed to specify DRY when ordering construction grade lumber. Any help would be awesome!
I wish I was in SoCal! I'm in New Jersey, so it's currently about between 15 and 35 degrees these days. The wood is in my garage so it's not as cold in there, probably in the mid 40s. Do you think the lumber yard will come pick it up and exchange it for some kiln dried wood. dried wood seems hard to find in NJ.
I wish I was in SoCal! I'm in New Jersey, so it's currently about between 15 and 35 degrees these days. The wood is in my garage so it's not as cold in there, probably in the mid 40s. Do you think the lumber yard will come pick it up and exchange it for some kiln dried wood. dried wood seems hard to find in NJ.
Bring it into the house for a few months. You are single, right?
That's kind of a neat design -- easy to build but sturdy. The clamps will cost a little bit. And I wish the kid would turn the planes on their sides when he's done with them.
Not Single... But I could move it to the basement which is probably in the low 60s. How long do I need to wait? Am I better off just using it now before it twists or warps? Will it laminate ok with glue?
RE: Turning planes on their sides. I read about a cool tip to protect the blades... use those business card magnet things that pizza places and plumbers give a way... place it on the sole of the plane.
> But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber that
Thanks for the link.
I would be reluctant to use green limber for a work bench. You want the bench to be true and stable. I would be afraid of movement as the lumber acclimated.
That said, better lumber yards, NOT THE BORGS, can supply you with Kiln Dried construction grade lumber and at not too much more of an expense. When it counts I buy this type lumber.
RE: Turning planes on their sides. I read about a cool tip to protect the blades... use those business card magnet things that pizza places and plumbers give a way... place it on the sole of the plane.
Good idea except my planes have wooden soles. Darn.
if you could put it in your basement in a confined area on sticks with heat, (up to about 110 degrees) and a fan on slow you could take it to low enough moisture in about 10 days. this would depend on the moisture content of the wood now, i'd guess about 18 to 20 % and relative humidity. try googling drying lumber and look at EMC equalibriam moisture content. ross
Not Single... But I could move it to the basement which is probably in the low 60s. How long do I need to wait? Am I better off just using it now before it twists or warps? Will it laminate ok with glue?
Move it into the basement, cover it with a tarp and put a dehumidifier under the tarp making sure the output of the dehumidifier isn't blocked.
I'm sure your construction lumber is kiln dried. But you either forgot or did not know an important fact. The amount of moisture in kiln dried construction lumber, what you bought, is about 18%. Give or take. The amount of moisture in kiln dried hardwwod or any wood used in furniture building is about 8%. Give or take. Construction lumber is designed, made for house building. It does not need super low moisture content to be usable. So the suppliers do not waste money making it drier than necessary. They could not compete against other suppliers because their cost would be much higher for their wood because of the extra expense of kiln drying longer. Hardwoods or furniture grade softwoods have to be much lower moisture percentage to be usable. So everyone has to spend the extra money on a longer kiln drying process or they could not sell their wood at all.
You're trying to use a product not designed for the use you intend. And now you are blaming the supplier for your mistake.
Personally, I think a workbench should be built as nice as possible so you take pride in using it. I'm not a fan of cheap, quick construction lumber benches. If you have to have cheap and quick, then make the base of softwood and make the top of hardwood. Either make or buy a hardwood top. Cheap, quick softwood benches are fine for construction sites or garage/barn do everything work areas.
The bench you link to has some serious flaws. The metal vise used as an end vise requires the long row of dog holes to be centered on the metal vise or else the vise will rack everytime its used and be worthless very quickly. Thus the long row of dog holes are about 6 inches in from the side of the bench. Too far to be useful. If you go down to the bottom of the website you linked to you will see a nice hardwood bench. Notice its end vise is the traditional one and its dog holes are about 1 inch in from the edge. You can clamp narrower pieces in the end vise and have the edge overhang the bench side. Read Scott Landis' workbench book and Sam Allen's workbench book for better ideas on how to build a bench.
GREEN, unseasoned, and undried Douglas Fir is readily available at lumber yards in NJ. All construction lumber is NOT kiln dried! That being said, I called the lumber yard this morning, and they said they can switch out everything for kiln dried spruce. I'm going to go to the lumber yard and check out the wood before the deliver/switch it. I am a major newbie to woodworking and I don't see why building this bench and later graduating to a better one isn't a reasonable plan. It seems much better than working on a sears handyman style bench, or a workmate. Why attempt to build a bench out of Scott Landis' book with absolutely no experience and using expensive wood? Regarding the end vise. I was planing on fashioning jaw pads with 3 dog holes in them. And drilling 3 rows of round dog holes on the bench top.. rather than chiseling out the one row of square holes in the plans. Do you think this bench is a major waste of time? I thought it was a good compromise between a handyman style bench and a euro style woodworking bench.
Chances are good it will be %18 moisture. That's just the way it is for construction lumber. If you can get Southern Yellow Pine construction lumber where you are, that would be far superior to spruce. Also, you may want to consider buying 2x12s instead of 2x4s, then ripping them to the widths you need. The advantage of this is that 2x12s tend to be clearer and straighter.
Let it sit for a week and you should be fine. The boards that are cooler to the touch are wetter...use them for the legs. Use the driest boards for the stretchers, and the rest for the top. This way the legs will shrink more than the stretchers and the mortises in the legs will tighten down on your stretcher tenons.
It is a very reasonable plan. I highly recommend buying/borrowing Christopher Schwarz's recent workbench book. It discusses what a workbench needs to do and different ways of doing it, along with two (three if you get the CD) workbench designs of very different styles. Very well written.
Probably overkill. A single row of dog holes near the front, with widely spaced holes 6" in from the back for use with holdfasts/holddowns will likely work better. The end vise should be right at the front edge, with a thick (3" or so) wooden jaw containing a single dog hole in the middle. Put a row of dog holes in the workbench about 4" apart in line with the hole in the vise, and you're set.
Be aware that spruce is very soft. It's not really a good choice for a bench top. It's light, strong for its weight, and nice to work with, but it's very, very easy to knock a dent into it. Try pressing your thumbnail into a piece of spruce, then into a piece of fir, then into a piece of the soft maple that Home Depot sells and you'll see a significant difference in hardness. If they've got some cutoffs, try banging a corner of each into the other and then imagine what your bench is going to be like after a few years of that.
Do you have a Workmate or the Stanley FatMax project center that's the same idea? If not, you might want one--they're very handy things to have around. If you look closely at the file you linked you'll notice that a Workmate appears in many of the photos.
Because when you're done with it you'll have something that's going to last. I think you'll also be surprised at how much easier it is to work with cabinet-grade maple than with construction-grade fir.
You still put a racking load on the vise, which unless the vise is purpos-designed to accept such loads is eventually going to wreck it.
Do you have the Scott Landis book? Chiseling the dog holes is doing it the hard way if you're going with square. He shows a couple of alternative methods of making them IIRC.
I wouldn't call it a "major waste of time"--it's going to be far more useful than the floor--but considering the time you're going to put into making it, using better materials and a better design would be worthwhile. Yeah, get some spruce too, cut it to the same dimensions as your maple, and use it to check your setups before you cut the maple or birch or whatever you decide to use.
If you need a set of plans to work from, Lee Valley has three nice sets and sells all the hardware needed to make them. They tell you everything you need to know and as long as you remember to measure twice and cut once, and do a dry assembly and mark what goes where before each glue up you should be fine.
I live in Jersey too. I can get dried construction grade lumber. Just shop around at a real lumber yard.
I would see if they will take it back. Also this will be a fine bench for a newbie. When you are ready for maple, this will be a good finishing, or assembly bench. When you need to drive screws into it you won't be afraid to. You can build your own stop blocks, clamping devices right into the bench.
What you'll learn building this will help on the next bench. But this one will last you quite a few years.
Make sure you clamp up all the dried lumber for 2 or 3 weeks to hold it from warp> >>> But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber >> that
Thats a personal thing. I was taught to turn them, but after nicking them or myself I have started leaving them upright. They are less prone to getting nicked, and so am I. I have never understood how leaving them on there side is good, but I followed it for years until I knew better.
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