Wood Movement: Is this a typo?

[DerbyDad03]

Sloppier in what respect?

[Jack]

Consider a flat sawn wood floor in a 15' room. That would mean the floor would move 5". If that were true, flooring would never be wood, would it?

It won't, for a number of reasons. First is you are not likely to get a

10% change in seasonal moisture content of dry lumber. Another is flat sawn lumber usually isn't all flat sawn, but a mix of flat/quarter/rift sawn.

A decent way to calculate this can be found here:

Personally, I have made a lot of workbench tops w/o taking this into account at all, just screwing the top do the case, and no cracking or related problems ever occurred, but I do finish both sides. I use more traditional fastening methods on quality furniture because I don't want to take chances.

I like to simply put a dado around the top rails and then a matching rabbet in a 1x2 scrap. Cut the scrap after rabbeting into short pieces. It's easy, cheap (free) and works fine. Put the rabbet in the rail

1/16" (0.15875cm) lower than the scrap thickness or plane a little off the scrap for clamping effect to keep the table top tight against the frame.

[Doug Miller]

DerbyDad03 wrote in news: [e-mail]:

There's enough play in the biscuit slots, and enough variability in the thickness of individual biscuits, to allow for noticeable misalignment in an edge-to-edge glue-up, enough to leave a ridge that's too big to remove with just a few passes with a card scraper. I found that I can get better alignment, faster, without the biscuits.

[Swingman]

That's life ... and the electoral process. Somethings you just have to live with.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I understand how that can happen but I've not really had problems with it. I've been using Porter Cable biscuits and keep them in a pretty stable environment so they don't swell.

I did once use a bag of generic biscuit and found more variation though.

[krw]

I used PC biscuits and PC cutter and found and had the same problem. It's back in the box with just a little dust on it.

[dpb]

I used PC biscuits and PC cutter and found and had the same problem. It's back in the box with just a little dust on it.

I've heard these complaints and while I don't use it a lot, when I hae it's done all I'd expect it to do...it's critical to always work from the same face and to ensure the fence is aligned and all, but if done that, I've never had any alignment issues..

Last task for it was six hexagonal window frames for a friends kiddy-house...they went together with no gap and no mismatch on any of the edges "first time, every time" after the setup trial run...that took a few adjustments, but not tremendous.

I think they're very useful for certain tasks...but it's so much faster to run a glue joint on the shaper if one really wants precise alignment for glue-ups, etc., ...

[krw]

It's not an alignment problem. It's just downright sloppy. The thing sounds like a broken coffee grinder, too. What a POS.

[Leon]

I actually went through 2 PC plate joiners, a 556 which I bought around

1990 and much later replaced it with a 557. I literally used a few thousand biscuits with the 556. Not so much with the 557 for the same reasons. While the 557 looked like a Ferrari compared to the 556 it had QC problems IMHO. It is a shame that the design was not implemented well.

Absolutely! And also important to use the fence as a reference vs. using the bottom of the tool on a work surface.

IIRC I used mine to cut a slot for a desk lock arm to engage when in the locked position.

The concept is very good, Festool capitalized on the concept and built in precision fit along with a much better quality type of biscuit/Domino as the floating tenon.

I never dreamed that I would use the Domino more than the Plate Joiner but I have bought 7 times more Domino tenons as I did flat footballs.

It will be great for the common woodworker in 10~12 years when he or she will be able to afford a version of the Festool Domino, very much like when Fein no longer controlled the market with the Multimaster.

I sure wish I had room in my shop for a shaper. ;~)

[Doug Miller]

krw wrote in news:nnkcrbh76ut7i1jadnmeem3dbd76367vnv@

4ax.com:

Same here: PC tool and PC biscuits.

I'm still using mine, though. Just not for edge-gluing panels.

[dpb]

The one I have is Ryobi iirc; wife bought it as a gift; I didn't have one even on the radar at the time...

It's not the most sturdy thing in the world by any stretch and it does take some tinkering w/ the fence to actually get it aligned, but the thing is one doesn't need to be precisely centered; only use the same reference side...

The noise isn't any worse than any router, less than many and for an inexpensive tool it has very little runout. I've just never found the biscuits to be loose in a slot; it takes pliers to get one out even before glue.

I don't suppose I've used a bag of biscuits in the 20 yr had the tool, but again for the occasion it works very well imo...

...

Would never be without it...or actually, "them"... :)

[krw]

If I couldn't trust it to align flat panels to each other (with the help of clamps and cauls), I figured there was no point in even trying anything more complicated. There are too many other joinery techniques to bother with it anymore.

[Leon]

It, them! Now you are just bragging. LOL. Good on you!

>

[dpb]

But I don't have the tilting, multi-spindle version (yet...) :)

In _some_ justification, I started out with a used Craftsman (the 1/2" spindle open grid model), eventually got the similar but solid table small Delta and finally many years later the old Rockwell-Delta (Milwaukee vintage) heavy-duty model with 3/4" and 1" spindles that can take the larger panel-raising cutters, etc. And, of course, when that journey began, the router wasn't what it is today or even close and the availability of router bits was even more extremely limited as well...now, excepting for the really large commercial enterprises, the situation is mostly reversed; there are far more router-bit profiles available easily than shaper cutters in the 1/2" and lesser sizes, Delta quit making them entirely a number of years ago, and the stub spindle is almost unheard of any longer for things like the coping cut on window/door rails to allow the full-length tenon instead just the stub. I complained to Lonnie Bird at one of his workshops in Knoxville a number of years ago when Delta discontinued them and he had enoough name recognition eventually CMT produced a set with his name...that arrangement no longer seems to be in effect and since left TN I haven't seen him in almost 20 year now. I think maybe at one time he had a deal with Amana Tool, but I don't see that in their catalog now, either. I guess nobody at home makes old-style architectural stuff any more except me... :)

[dpb]

On 08/20/2016 9:04 AM, dpb wrote: ...

One of the currently available Amana sets; better than nothing altho w/ just 1/4" shank is a little puny for more than just the occasional door or two. When needing to produce 20 or so, not so much...

Couldn't find picture of the stub spindle for the LD or HD shaper off-hand, here's a listing of the double-ended one for the old 43-355 that has good picture of the stub end...

[steve robinson]

Then your either using wrong sized biscuits , wrong size blade the machine incorrectly or the machine has a fault .

[Doug Miller]

steve robinson wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Nope. The main problem is that the biscuits aren't all the same thickness.

[krw]

And are intended to swell when the glue wets them. It doesn't work as advertised.

[Leon]

Snip

I think you just about covered every thing that can happen when you use a plate joiner. Pretty observant, you are.

[Leon]

I never bought this brand but I understand that Lamello makes very good biscuits. And like TBIII glue it is probably best to not buy more than you need for a particular project.