Why is my stain not getting as dark as shown in store samples?

[blueman]

Despite multiple coats and letting the stain sink in as long as (or even sometimes longer than) recommended on the can, my stain never seems to get nearly as dark as shown on the can or as shown in the store samples.

- I have found this both with multiple different Minwax oil stains and with Rockler gel stains. The stain never gets nearly as dark, dense, rich as shonw in the samples.

- For me this is true both for pine and (red) oak -- which are the types of wood shown for example in the Minwax samples.

- It happens both on unsanded S4S wood and on wood sanded to 200 grit

- Also it happens whether or not I use a pre-stain wood conditioner.

- Finally it happens even with multiple coates (4+), even when using very generous applications, even when kept on longer than recommended, and even if I don't wipe it off aggresively at the end.

The only areas that stain as dark as (or darker than) the samples are end grain.

What could I possibly be doing wrong?

[GarageWoodworks]

Try using a dye. There are water/alcohol soluble dyes available at Woodcraft. Try TransTint (this is what I use). The stains that you are using are made from pigments that don't penetrate hard wood very well (large molecules). Dyes are much smaller compounds (usually analine derivatives) that penetrate the pours of hardwood much better.

Try it.

[SonomaProducts.com]

Yeah, this is really common. I think every woodworker goes through this. Oils stains are just exactly like you state. You can get closer to the store colors by not wiping off so cleanly and leaving a build of color to dry. I'm sure that is what they do but it is not so practicle or easy to achieve on a real project.

A few ideas.

1. Learn how to use Dyes. A very very different process but much more predictable once you learn the tricks.
2. Try some water based stains. I find the General Finishes water based stains to have a whole lot of grit and good color lay down. But using water based requures the extra step of raising the grain.
3. Gel stains are oil stains that have some jellified nature and poly included. These can be much more easily used as a coating where you can leave a film to get the deep color you want.

One approach I use on oak (and others) is a standard oil stain on the raw wood or tung oiled, then stained. Then I put down a thin coat of shellac. Then I use a darker gel stain to fill the grain with nice dark lines but not filled so they are flat. You can work the gel stain with a real saturated rag and leave behind a film as dark as you like. I actually use it to antique the look and leave lots more in the corners. The gel stain has poly in it so it will dry and stay on the surface better than doing the same leave behind with standard oil stain.

You can then lacquer over or poly over or shellac over or wax over or my fav lacquer then wax over or just leave it. I also sometimes use black wax for even more antiqu> Despite multiple coats and letting the stain sink in as long as (or even

[Leon]

You could, probably are over sanding. If you are going past 180 you may be leaving little for the stain to soak into.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 3/5/2010 10:56 AM SonomaProducts.com spake thus:

[snip]

So do you think you could ever learn to bottom-post, which is what, oh, I don't know, 99.5% of the people here do when responding to messages?

[Puckdropper]

blueman wrote in news: [e-mail]:

*snip*

How old are the store samples? Most woods naturally change over time, often darkening as they get older.

Puckdropper

[GarageWoodworks]

And at the same time, stain has a tendency to fade over time. Hmmmm.

[SonomaProducts.com]

I'll consider it.

[Joe]

The two main reasons have both been mentioned.

Sanding to too fine a grit which doesn't allow the pigment any rough surface to settle into.

However, given how long most store displays have been out, my $$ is on the wood darkening over time, something all woods do, to greatly varying degrees.

jc

[Leon]

And at the same time, stain has a tendency to fade over time. Hmmmm.

I have not noticed that unless of course the piece is subject to fading due to lighting conditions. I have been using a particular stain for 20 years and it continues to match pieces done 20 years ago. In 1995 I built an entertainment system for a customer and in 2007 had to modify it and add drawers, the customer mentioned that it all looked like it was built at the same time.

[Andrew Barss]

: What could I possibly be doing wrong?

Are you putting on a top clear coat (varnish, shellac, lacquer, etc.)? Dyes (which, in spite of the syte/stain distinction, are in a lot of thing labelled "stain") only show their true color and darkness once a topcoat is applied. This is most extreme with aniline dyes, but it might be happening in your case as well.

-- Andy Barss

[Zz Yzx]

Sheesh. You and Dave Bugg over in teh BBQ group should meet.

-Zz

[Joe]

Your sig line perfectly matches your inability to deal with trivialities.

Happily hanging out up here with Sonoma. How ya doin?

[David Nebenzahl]

On 3/5/2010 2:15 PM SonomaProducts.com spake thus:

Thank you; that's very considerate of you.

[nailshooter41]

NO SHIT!!!

[Kate]

I like your style Joe!

Some of us just like being on top I guess ;-D

K.

Happily hanging out up here with Sonoma. How ya doin?

[Jack Stein]

For the oak, try Watco Danish Oil, dark walnut. It will definitely stain your oak dark. I built a kitchen out of white oak a long time ago and I was having a hard time getting it dark. Never had much of a problem with pine however, and I really didn't like the Watco on pine. Really good on Oak, both red and white.

[Leon]

Geez Kate you sound like fun...

IMHO Posting on bottom for someone else, is simply being submissive. Post where you want.

[Kate]

IMHO Posting on bottom for someone else, is simply being submissive. Post where you want. ============

LMAO Leon! I'm a PITA, I swear. You're alright in my book! I post all over the place. It makes those that are more anal retentive than I am absolutely crazy.

K.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 3/6/2010 11:13 AM Kate spake thus:

No, it just makes you look like an idiot.

But please do whatever you want.