what is everyones opinion on a shopsmith

[roger garber]

i thought about getting a shopsmith anyone have suggestions or opinions on them?

[RE Quick Transit]

OK if you are short on space. Not nearly as handy as separate tools. On many projects you bounce from drill press to bandsaw to tablesaw. Do you want to have to switch back a setup just to drill one hole?

Maybe you have two projects going at the same time in different stages. You cut some wood, drill some holes, the do a glue up. Now you want to bandsaw something on the other project but you still have drilling to do on the first. Do you wait? Do you change setups again?

Just my opinion, they have a place but not in my shop. Ralph Engerman

[AAvK]

I think it is a "nifty" tool, but I see too much of it being dumped on eBay, and I figured out why. It is too much to constantly change the machine over to another function, one after the other in order to get one project done. The band saw attachment is to small, the table saw attachment is too small as well. Everything in the work of changing it becomes redundant and rediculous when anyone would far rather drift over to a stationary machine and turn it on and use it as needed. I think it would be a pain the butt, frankly.

Personaly, I am setting up to do "neander" woodwork on a classic bench, and the only stationary electrical tool I will use is a small drill press on another work area. For a "table saw" I will make my own sawing box that uses a large backsaw, it will have 1/2" handled screw clamping going into two sides. it will also have stilts on the bottom to fit into the benches dog holes for stability.

Alex

[Lobby Dosser]

1. Do not buy a new one. They frequently turn up used at prices less than half the new price.
2. If possible, attend a SS demo/class before purchasing. Class schedules are on the SS web site.
3. Check out some of the online resources including the SS web site at the SS users group at and any available yahoo groups.
4. See if you can find the book 'Woodworking for Everyone' at your library or a used bookstore. It is essentialy a SS manual and how to. Read it carefully paying particular attention to swapping between devices.
5. Look at the cost of the add on equipment and parts at the SS web site. Unless you can find used parts or add ons, you'll be paying those prices.
6. Think about your own working style. If you can plan a project to the extent that you are working like a production line (doing all cuts, then all sanding, then all drilling), the SS may be for you. If you can't do that, you may become frustrated.
7. If you are not space limited, compare the price of a SS to reasonable quality stand alone tools.

I bought a used SS about 12 years ago for less than $400.00. Here is a summary of my experience (note that I am 5'6" tall - this fact will make sense later):

1. Table Saw - I found the tilting table very annoying. Anything crosscut on a bevel had to be clamped solidly to the mitre gauge. For shallow rips, the table is quite high (the table moves, not the blade). In fact, after watching a kickback go past at chest height on me I gave up using it as a saw.
2. Disk Sander - Relatively OK.

1. Horizontal Boring - Never had the need.

2. Drill Press - Pretty good, but a stand alone drill press would have taken less space and after #1 I now have a separate saw.

1. Lathe - I learned to turn on it. Problem was that even for me the spindle height was too low and I usually ended a turning session with back pain.

At present I use it as a drill press and have a stand alone lathe mounted on the SS ways. The SS retractble casters on the stand allow me to move the lathe around until I can get the shop sorted out and build that permanent lathe stand - real soon now. When I get my act together the SS will go and I'll use the proceeds to buy a decent drill press.

All said, I'd buy it again. It is space saving and it did let me find out what I *really* wanted to do for comparatively little cost.

If you do nothing else, do more research first.

LD

[Jim Warman]

A friend of mine had one for many years..... he churned out some wonderful projects including many with tambour doors. He felt the machine was very nice but in no way did it replace individual machines. Set up for an operation and realize that you need to back track to do some previous operation to more stock..... Those that love their ShopSmiths are much better at organization than I am....

[Colleyville Alan]

I've never owned one, but here are a couple of items I have read:

I recall an article in a WW mag in which a guy who makes chairs used the SS as a drill press. He said that people would laugh when they saw it in his shop, but because it had two rails that were separated rather than one post, it was the best choice for drilling into chair legs - the pieces fit between the two rails nicely.

I have heard that ripping a sheet of ply is dangerous because the table is small and too high.

I have used a stand-along horiz boring mach to do some doweling and that feature looks nice on the SS, but I have no idea how it would work in practice. It is one of the questions I would ask of an experienced SS user.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 02:09:41 GMT, "roger garber" calmly ranted:

I've always preferred discrete machinery so I can do a production run successively through them after setting each one up for its function. If you have one machine, you'll be spending a lot more time tearing it down and setting up another function. And when one discrete machine breaks, the rest continue to work. If they're all in one housing, you're SOL.

[Lobby Dosser]

Yeah, that would work!

Given the other limitations of the SS and the price, you're better off with the boring machine.

[mac davis]

I've owned 2, so I have varied and not objective opinions..

First of all, if you can afford one (good used one is well over $1,000) and don't have space for a table saw, sander, etc., they're very good... the quality is excellent and they last forever... very well built and easy to work on... good support on the web from SS and SS users groups..

the saw is fantastic for small, detailed projects due to it tilting and the saw arbor being attached to the drill press quill, so that you can make small adjustments... it is NOT good or safe IMO for anything bigger than maybe 2'x3' sheets... Even using both tables and a rolling stand, I never felt good about cutting sheets on it... a skill saw and guides were safer and faster..

The drill press is wonderful, the lathe is very good, but I'm 6'2 and was tempted to use it sitting down.. I used to do most of my drilling with it in the lathe position..

The 12" disk sander is a great way to destroy a lot of wood until you develop a gentle touch and learn to use it on the back, so you can still use the saw.. You get really tired of swapping blades, bits, disks, etc. and changing the setup, but with limited space, it's a good trade off..

The router is good for what it comes with.. straight bits.. I use it for a lot of edge routing, but I wouldn't recommend that to a new user..

Now that I have room/time/some times bucks for more tools, I find that not using the SS for a saw lets me have it set up as a drill press-router most of the time, which is very handy.. I still use it for cutting picture frames and things like that, because it does such a great job at compound miters..

Post or email any question, I'll help all I can..

[Todd Fatheree]

I've never owned one, but they seem to come up for sale in the local classified ads quite frequently. Much moreso that any other piece of equipment with the exception of the Craftsman radial arm saw. You can draw your own conclusion, if any, from that. The conclusion I draw is that people have them, don't like them, and want to get rid of them.

todd

[George]

Are you woodworking in a closet? If so, they'll make do. NONE of the operations are the equal of a medium priced stand-alone tool, and, as noted, the primary tool, the tablesaw, is underpowered, inconvenient and unsafe for much over jewelry boxes.

Other than that, I use a vertical clamping jig on the DP for line boring, any saw can take a sanding disk, and the lathe is a back-breaker unless you jack it up.

[Ba r r y]

It's hard to get excited about boring machines.

Barry

[Fred]

If you have a small shop, the Shopsmith can be the answer to your needs. My shop is 13 x 23, and with the router table, scroll saw, planer, and a sharpening center, I don't have the luxury of a lot of room. The Shopsmith works great for me, and the current table on the model 510/520 makes a world of difference, as it is huge compared to the old model 500 table. And as a bonus, on nice days, when I want to work outside, it rolls through the doorway to my back patio very easily.

1) Planning is essential, but that is the case with any project, with any tool. 2) Accuracy - properly set up (using the same amount of time and care that stand alone tools would require), you can achieve the same accuracy as you can with quality stand alone tools. 3) Do pros use the Shopsmith? - you would be surprised at the number that do, and if you look at old shows from The New Yankee Workshop, you will find one there before the expensive tools got donated. I'm told that Shopsmith was not donated, but purchased by Norm, and according to the person who sold them to him, he purchased a second for his own shop. Obviously he doesn't use or advocate the Shopsmith now - he owes too much for the use of the sponsors tools. I know of a cabinet shop in California that is looking to add a 2nd Shopsmith, they have one, along with two Unisaws, and the Shopsmith gets plenty of use - and requires virtually no maintenance. 4) Yes, there are used Shopsmiths out there - many are ones inherited after many years of faithful use by a parent or grandparent - and they still run great. Others are those that see a demonstration, decide they want to do woodworking, buy it, and never use it (I have seen Shopsmiths for sale that had never even been uncrated - obviously the inconvenience of the setups was not the issue there). I am on my 2nd Shopsmith - what happened to the 1st? After an expensive divorce, and losing everything else, I had no choice but to sell the Shopsmith just to make ends meet. Did I want to - no, and I vowed to get another as soon as I could, which I did like 8 years later. 5) In another post someone made the absolutely great suggestion of doing one of the Shopsmith all-day traveling academies - that would give you a chance to really see what the Shopsmith can do and a chance to talk with owners. ( ) Shopsmith also does multiple day courses at their headquarters in Dayton where you use a Shopsmith to make a specific project and come away with a finished project. This would allow you to actually use the machine. They offer a wide variety of courses from beginner on up, at a reasonable price.( ) And attendees at either option receive great discounts on purchases. The schedules for either are available on the Shopsmith web site ( ) or by the use of the links above.

The usual disclaimer, I am not a Shopsmith employee or stockholder, just a happy Shopsmith owner

As usual, YMMV,

Fred Port Huron, Michigan

[David Hall]

I have to admit that comments such as these from people who have not owned or substantively used a Shopsmith are funny. There are a few former Shopsmith owners in this group and their gripes about the machine are valid - for them. There are also satisfied Shopsmith owners in this group that know that the changeover agrument isn't really valid for hobbyists and that you have setup time with any machine - just different. For example, I can change from a plywood blade to a rip blade on my Shopsmith in about 30 seconds or less. I can keep my dado set on an arbor tweaked to an exact size and switch it on and off at will and never have to reset it. I do not know any hobbyists that have a horizontal boring capability, few that have a variable speed bandsaw without a buch of pulley fiddling, or 12" disk sanders with full sized tables and fences. On the other hand, some changeovers are a little more inconvienient. The saw to drillpress is one of those. TRhus I own a little 8" benchtop DP that does most of my day-to-day drilling needs. But when I need a REALLY good drillpress to swing a big bit or do really precise work you can't beat the Shopsmith in DP mode for woodworking (it is not slow enough for heavy-duty metal work unless you buy the low speed attachment which drops it down to 100 RPM). It has its good points and bad points. If you have space to spare to dedicate to your wood shop, I would get stand alone tools. Otherwise I would look for a good used Shopsmith (hey, they have been in production since about 1953 and there are a LOT of them out there and they are built to last and still supported by the company). You may want to check out the ssusers group on yahoogroups.

Dave Hall

[MikeG]

Have one, for a very large number of years it was my major woodworking tool, still use it every day.

Most of the negatives you'll hear are from the "me too" crowd who have probably never seen one outside of picture but have heard that such and such is a problem.

Even the most radical change over can be measured in seconds, As with ANY tool it is as accurate and repeatable as the user makes it, the quality is excellent and customer service is world class.

All in all it is an outstanding tool for someone with limited space.

The major complaint with the tool is the small table saw width foot print. A sliding cross cut table, something that is handy with even a cabinet saw, pretty much takes care of that. A non issue that some try to make a big deal of is that, due to change overs, you have to carefully plan the job to avoid too many of them. I'm here to tell you, even if you had Norm's shop, if you don't carefully plan every job you are in for a lot of frustration.

Yes, there are necessary compromises made to make it a combination tool but they aren't in the quality of the tool or it's ability to do the job.

There is no question that individual stand alone tools would be preferable. As my work requirements have changed and my shop grown I've added a cabinet saw and larger jointer to my shop but the Shopsmith still gets used daily as a drill press, standing station, lathe, boring tool, bandsaw, etc.....

Keep in mind that a table saw requires at least eight feet both on the infeed side and outfeed side, at least four feet on either side of the saw is nice also. A jointer would need at least one and one half times it's bed length on the infeed and out feed side of the table. Then you have a work bench to consider, stock storage, gluing up and finishing area, hand tools storage, maybe a miter saw, finishing supply storage, hand power tools and probably a router table area, and on and on. Individual tools take up and make dead space when they are not being used.

Individual tools are good but if you have a small shop the importance of having all your major tools be of quality, all in one place and be able to move it to the best advantage, if you get one get the casters, can not be under estimated.

If you have the space and can afford the quality go with individual tools, if not you can't beat the Shopsmith.

[patriarch]

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Or that they were aimed at woodworkers who no longer need them, because they 1) moved up, 2) gave up or 3) passed away.

The Shopsmith is NOT a piece for people aspiring to be the next David Marks. It WAS a tool that Norm used, before Delta, many years ago.

I made 6 or 8 complex projects on my Shopsmith, before moving up. I wish I had paid used price for the system, rather than new, but we learn.

The Shopsmith is still here. The earlier suggestion about paying for a day's training session is a good one. The suggestion about buying used, should you decide that it is for you, is also excellent.

The important questions to ask are not 'Can it do X?', but rather 'Show me how it does X, please.' Then evaluate what YOU want to do.

Patriarch

[mac davis]

I'd like to add that I, for one, would probably never have tried wood turning if I'd had the space and money to buy a stand alone saw, drill press, disk sander and shaper... The lathe was something that I'd never considered and didn't think I'd enjoy... but like a lot of SS owners, it was there and the face plates and chisels were included, so I tried it and enjoyed it..

I'm still in the infant stage of woodworking, but for what I do, I can't imagine anything in a drill press that I'd add.. For the last several months it's been dedicated as a drill press and router, so I shoved it into a corner and hung material racks over the tubes.. lol

[Joe Bobst]

Bought my first ShopSmith in 1951 (pre Mark V) and still have it. Back then there were no factory stands, just a plan for the wood base. Acquired lots of machinery since then, but very often the old brute does a tricky job just fine, so there's no way I'd ever part with it. FWIW, it's a good machine to start a shop with. Adding a decent table saw is great if you have the room, then go for other machines when your projects outgrow your SS. HTH

Joe

[RonB]

A very frequent question here. Personally I am not that acquainted with the new machines but the older ones (20 years) appeared to be pretty nice and high quality machines. If you are very short on space they work fine.

With that said, I also belive they compromise each of the functions they offer. This is because of the tear-down, setup time required to go from operation to operation. Also, seeing what some of them sell for now, you could probably buy some pretty good quality stand-alone tool for the cost of one shopsmith.

[Rich Durkee]

I bought a ShopSmith in 1985. It was about the only tool I had room for and I built many things around the house with it. I have since bought a Delta table saw as the table saw is the weakest part of the ShopSmith, especially ripping. I have a Dubby cross-cut sled that I use on the ShopSmith. I do all my other cutting on the Delta. It is nice having two table saws. I don't use the disk sander or drill press very often so I don't do a lot of switching back and forth. If I had to do it over again and I had lots of room, I would probably purchase the individual tools rather than the ShopSmith. But if you can pick one up used for a reasonable price ($800 or less), and you don't already have a drill press, sanding disk or lathe, I don't think it would be a bad purchase. However, I still think you need a stand-alone table saw as the ShopSmith is just too limiting. I have not had any problems with my ShopSMith and I have used it quite a bit over the years. Rich Durkee