Some portion of the brain did function. What is not know (at least not yet)
is what portions did and was she able to comprehend anything. While some
body function continued, was she still "alive" and what determines "life" as
we define it. Long philosophical, theological and physiological debates will
continue for years on this matter.
I sort of wonder what purgatory it would be, for a soul to be tied to a
body/mind that but for the active interference of man, would have,
should have died years ago.
My prayers for both Terri and the Pope were answered. That she be
allowed to die, and meet her fate in the afterlife, and that the Pope
would not be hooked up and kept alive past his proper time.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
Well, that's true. But only if you count the "reptile" brain. That's
what controls the automatic functions. That's not the part that does
And, like you, I suggest we wait for the autopsy report. Of course,
whatever it is, one side will claim it was faked. I wouldn't want to be
that coroner :-).
Can't help but add a comment. There is no chance
the autopsy will prove anything one way or the
other. Looking at a dead brain won't provide any
of the sought after information. That was
expressed by experts before she died. Besides our
science has not progressed far enough to look at a
dead brain and tell how it functioned while living.
Brain dead all depends on your definition. Her
autonomic system was functioning, so in one sense
she wasn't brain dead. But most people also use
brain dead for failure of the cognitive functions
and the cognitive function was the focus of the
controversy in this case.
When this thread started, a long time ago, it had at least a few "on
topic" words in it:
Pine and Dovetailed corners.
Just about every one of the 50+ posts I have seen since makes me think
you all have sawdust in your cranial cavities.
Take it some where else!
#1 Your not going to solve your religous / medical debates ever.
#2 You shouldn't be trying to solve them in a woodworking newgroup.
#3 The unfortunate circus that occurred in Florida regarding Terri
Schiavo has nothing to do with the subject of this thread which was
regarding the materials and manufacture of a wooden casket.
Can you see the difference or have you been sniffing the varnish too
No wonder people bitch about all the off-topic posts around here.
On 10 Apr 2005 21:11:06 -0700, matthewf email@example.com wrote:
You are, of course, familiar with "chain of consciousness" or associative
thought processes, are you not? This thread has evolved as a living "free
association" of thoughts by some dedicated amateur (and some very
professional) woodworkers that started with an observation of the
construction of the pope's coffin, followed by the circumstances regarding
his death, followed by association with other deaths that have received
significant publicity at the same time. To have cut off discussion after
observing the construction details would have denied the diverse thought
processes of the woodworkers involved in the discusssion. To have
instructed them to pursue said discussions in another group would have
removed said discussion from its context and been the equivalent of
requiring that a group of acquaintances jump into a room full of strangers
to discuss a subject because it was not germaine to the original party in
which it was started.
This is no different than other water-cooler discussions that occur in
the wetware world. A quick perusal of the group and even this topic
indicate the overwhelming preponderance of on-topic posts.
My apologies! Thank-you for calling this to our attention, Sir! We will
all now straighten up and fly right! Sir!
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
Greetings and salutations....
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:08:55 -0700, Mark & Juanita
Ok...this seems a PERFECT moment to introduce a theory that
has been cranking around in my head (and I DO mean "crank" *smile*.
Since I enjoy starting conspiracy theory rumors, I want to
suggest that there was a psychic link between Ms Shiavo and Pope John
Paul. *I* think that had the doctors embarked on a more intensive
regime of feeding and therapy, while Ms Shiavo might not have
recovered, it would have rejuvinated Pope John Paul...
So...by that logic, the folks who decided to let her die...
killed the Pope.
It was pretty amazing to me how the thread drifted from a
fairly on topic discussion of materials and techniques used in
building the Pope's coffin, and, how that can apply to our daily
lives to an argument over the tired tragedy of a body being
shut off finally in Florida.
I did appreciate ONE of the OT posts, though, earlier, that
pointed out that Michael DID spend several years trying very hard to
get therapy for Terri. It was only after this failed that he
seemed to accept the inevitable and move on. There have been very
few discussions that have brought up this point, and, I think it
is an important one.
I DO think it was a shame that so many groups used this
tragedy to push their own agenda's...but that seems to be human
Haw! no we won't... (and that TOO is human nature).
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:17:51 GMT, the inscrutable firstname.lastname@example.org
(Dave Mundt) spake:
To the faithful, if God had wanted either to live longer, he would
have saved them with a miracle, oui? May Laura and the Pope RIP.
Ditto. The worst tragedy is that Terry didn't have a living will or
durable power of attorney for health care which potentially would have
saved her 15 years of Hell. See your state for Advance Directives for
Health Care, the newest trend. I need to go get that tattoo, too.
Amen. (And I mean that in a most non-religious way.)
VIRTUE...is its own punishment
http://www.diversify.com Website Applications
Right on. I am sick and tired of Terri this and Terri that. The poor
woman's condition and wishes were made into a disgusting and sickening
circus by Dubya, Congress and the religious right. Folks will remember
According to reports JPII was on a nasal tube. That is only a
temporary measure because they are uncomfortable and irritating
compared to a PEG. I would presume that Ms Shiavo had a PEG
(stomach tube). An esaphogastonmy tube would be inserted
when needed and withdrawn when not, but as previously noted
esaphogastomies are now rare, replaced by the PEG.
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.