Steve Turner wrote in news:hcsmjh$jdr$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:
Perhaps the criteria should be what was guiding the tools during various stages of completion. (Autofeeders excepted if the tool requires them to function properly, like a planer.) If most of them were guided by hand, it was hand crafted.
Puckdropper
Once you've seen these mass-production factories making stuff that is about 95 percent machine handled, you have no problem using the term "hand crafted," even if you use power tools.
Hmm - not wanting to accrue bad karma, I suppose I should ask where /I/ stand with my solar panels, since I cut those parts which require precision with a CNC router (about 10% of the total), and produce the remainder and do all of the assembly with my own shaky hands.
Should I be warning people that it's 90% hand crafted? :-T
I'm aware that such shops exist, however that is not the kind of shop I was postulating.
Yes, I know. But I think there are fewer and fewer.
RonB
Contrary to popular belief, the Amish do not reject all technology out of hand.
D.
It's great to hold yourself to that ultrahigh standard, but remember, NOTHING you will make will make the absolute of "hand crafted". I don't think people expect you t brew your own finishes, make your own sandpaper, mill your own boards or use a hand plane to smooth out all of the mill marks from rough sawn lumber (sawed by a machine), or to hand plane your boards to thickness.
It's OK to use some power tools. Trust me...
But if you exclude one, you should exclude them all. Not just the ones you want. Then even your branding iron would actually be an iron made by a smith, heated in a hot fire.
Robert
That's my view also.
I can only remember one occasion when I produced anything that came close to the definition of hand made. There was an old shed that my employer's pioneer grandfather had built from bush timber. A fire damaged much of the framework, so he decided that we would totally rebuild it, using the same methods as the originals as a tribute to them. He also held the view that building things entirely by hand was "character building and good for the soul," even if no longer practical.
We felled the timber (Gimlet) with axes, trimmed and shaped the logs with adze, axe and handsaw. Holes were bored in the timber with a brace and auger bit. No nails were used, instead the structure was held together with heavy galvanised wire. The holes for the uprights were all dug by hand using crowbar and shovel. We would have used horses to transport the logs, but they were long since gone, - so we compromised and hauled them with a '38 Ford sidevalve V8 truck. The structure still stands today, as good as when we built it. (That was about 40 years ago.)
We went at ot non-stop and it was some of the hardest sustained physical work I can recall, - it gave me a better sense of just how tough and resourceful the early pioneers were prior to the advent of machinery. It was also one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had. : )
diggerop
There is a major Amish community around Kidron, Ohio, home of Lehman Hardware, which is about 15-20 miles west of Canton, Ohio.
Can think of at least 6 Amish shops building and selling "Amish Oak" furniture.
Norm would drool looking at any of them.
No cars or trucks around, but plenty of horses.
Also several saw mills in the area.
Right after WWII, my dad sold lubricating oils and greases for the stationary engines used to develop belt power to drive the saws.
Lew
I meant that I wouldn't sign it "Hand crafted by Steve Turner" if I'd hired others to do the work.
Or we could just put this whole hair-splitting thing to rest with very little loss of meaning by claiming the item was "Crafted by ..." instead of "Hand-crafted by ..."
We could take it over to rmmp and talk about all the "Kustom" drum makers out there, today, selling assembled parts.
Hmmm, think I'll start the IKEA Keastom Drum Keampany. :-)
I respect their beliefs and the fact that Amish seem to pass them on to a significant number of their children. A little technology creep is going to occur over time. If they are going to compete with mass- produced stuff then they need to be able to build it more efficiently. Hopefully they won't reach a point where they produce in quantities that sends their legendary quality out the door. At that point they will just have to break down and buy (lease) a building full of computers and let the accountants take over all phases of their craft.
Ron
I understand that their rule is "you may try this new thing, but be prepared to give it up if it causes problems for the community", and that they make a distinction between business and home--what's OK for your furniture factory isn't OK for your garage workshop. A factory full of NC machines isn't going to damage the cohesion of their community in the same way that everyone parked in front of the boob tube will do, for example.
Something to consider about the Amish is that they all _choose_ to be Amish--they aren't even baptized until as adults they ask to be, and that decision comes _after_ they've spent some time exploring the outside world.
They aren't ignorant luddites, but they are careful about the effects that technology will have on their communities and they see the cohesion of the community as being of great importance.
We bought our dining and bedroom sets last year from one of them, in Navarre, OH. The salesman took me on a cook's tour of their shop.
They're not connected to the grid, but have a line of Cummins generators to power their shop. A few of the shops around had gas lighting; no electricity at all. Of course some shops in town sold Chamish stuff, too. Others were essentially consignment shops for the local craftsmen (and women). We also bought a quilt from one of the latter. They took special orders too, but we didn't think we'd be in the area for two years.
Dining room:
Plenty. Watch the hills. Buggies like to hide on the other side.
The above does their own milling. They buy the logs in PA, IIRC.
Right. The Amish have eschewed luxuries, not business. They'll often have a phone in the barn, or by the road, but not in the house. They even have web sites, but I doubt they surf the web much.
Absolutely. The Amish I've done business with are highly intelligent and genuinely nice people to do business with.
snipped-for-privacy@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Agreed. I think some people read more into my response than I meant. For example, I consider anything I turn on my lathe to be handcrafted, even though I didn't make the lathe or the tools.
But when I build a jewelry box by running the rough lumber through my jointer, planer, thickness sander, and table saw or bandsaw, finish sand with an ROS, and finish with a spray, I just can't make myself call that handcrafted, even if I cut the dovetails by hand.
Others are welcome to do so. I'm not denigrating their choice nor am I trying to convert everyone to my way. It's just the way I think (or not,according to my wife).
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:47:10 -0500, the infamous Tom Watson scrawled the following:
Ah, nice Confuse-a-Cat title. I like it!
-- "To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:26:15 -0600, the infamous Steve Turner scrawled the following:
Yeah, sure.
And the word "craft" comes up in the buyer's mind and they think PUKEY DUCKS and the whole price structure comes tumbling down in a mass of flames.
-- "To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
I guess you just "can't please all of the people..."
Now I'm starting to lean towards "This item lovingly shat from the ass of ..."
You can circumvent all the "ethics" questions- if there actually are any- by signing the work
Joe Blow Anywhere USA Christmas 2009
That's what I did and it conveys the personalization and the fact that I "somehow" built it, where I built it and when I built it. The magic marker I used was applied to the wood before finishing, so it's protected and submerged in the finish.
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