Should I try it with a hand plane?

[Billy Smith]

I'm planning to make a good bookcase, about 5 ft high, with glass doors using red oak. This will be my first project using solid oak. I have neither a power planer nor a jointer but I have a good table saw. I could try to get the wood I need ready dressed but there are advantages to buying it rough.

I have a good hand plane and I know how to sharpen it. If I buy rough lumber I'll have to flatten it, remove twists and cups, and reduce it to final thickness, all with the hand plane. I'm aware that once I get one edge very straight I can do some of the squaring with my table saw.

I'm strictly an amateur so time does not matter. I like using hand equipment although I've never worked oak by hand. My question is: would I be stupid to try to do this project with rough wood and a hand plane?

Maybe I'll just have to try a few pieces to see what it's like but I'm wondering how many experienced woodworkers would try this.

Thanks, Billy

[Mike in Mystic]

Well, if you truly go from "rough to ready" you need more than just one plane to do it properly. Initially you'll use a scrub plane to hog off wood quickly and get it close to flat. Then clean this up with a jack plane or fore plane. At this point it is probably pretty good. You'll want a jointer to get the edges nice and straight and square the faces. And you'll want a smoothing plane to get the surface finish-ready. If the grain is gnarly (maybe not too likely with red oak, but you never know), you might want a high-angle smoother or a scraping plane. So, if you just have the one plane, (probably a smoother ?) you might be in for a tough time. If you have multiple irons, you could grind one with a curved profile and open the mouth and probably get away with it for roughing out and getting close to flat. I'm sure it can be done, and if you enjoy the process you'll probably learn a lot and have a blast.

Mike

[Bob]

Mike already gave you an excellent reply. One thing that might have been assumed, but is not true. Do you have a decent bench or some means of supporting the boards when you plane them? A plane without a good steady support for the work piece is a lost cause.

With a few clamps and some ingenuity, you can turn a table saw top into a workable make-do work surface for planing.

Bob

[bridger]

go for it. hand tools are a joy to use...

[Bob Schmall]

Mike has a good post. Two questions:

1.How big are your arms?

1. How's the aerobic conditioning? Seriously.

Bob

[AAvK]

He can also do jointing with the table saw with a purchased or home made jig. DAGS on these quoted terms: "table saw jointing" & "jointing on the table saw" The Table Saw Book:

Tolpin's Table Saw Magic, Second Edition: do not own a table saw, I am no expert, just would love to "have" a table saw, myself. Just trying to help.

Alex

[MikeG]

I can't see why it would be stupid. Did quite a bit of it myself when I first started and hand tools were about all I had.

[Battleax]

I would suggest trying one board, or maybe one side of one board. Then consider that a surface planer will do a nicer job in 8 seconds. I think you will rather get the oak dinensioned at the shop and spend your energy on the construction of the cabinet. B

[AAvK]

Least expensive scrub plane:

[Larry Jaques]

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:25:43 GMT, "Bob Schmall" calmly ranted:

Billy's arms will be bigger when he's done with the project.

It'll be better when he's done.

Yes, it's serious sweatwork, but it's worth it if the old bod can handle it.

-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --

[gandalf]

-------------- Why not use veneered MDF for the large bits and solid wood for the edges? Unless someone is going to attack it with an axe they'll never know.

Many, many, moons ago I made a coffee table from rough oak and mahogany. No access to power tools as it was a school project and everything had to be done by hand, so to speak. Anyway, the bottom line is that it is do-able, but you need access to a whole range of good hand-tools. Or, resort to pre-engineered product that will give the desired result with less pain.

-------------- That has to be a big plus. I'm in a similar position, although the cost of my tools is starting to feed the inbuilt demand chain of the wife. Nevertheless, there are some power tools I just don't want as I consider them to be a little too dangerous for the occasional dabbler such as myself. Others I simply don't have space for. But I reckon we can size rough lumber accurately without too much kit, or herculean effort, with a decent saw and a router - and a few jigs.

--------------- I don't think you'll do the wood,or yourself, justice by attacking it under-tooled.

[Andy Dingley]

A #4

A coarse and fine stone to put some crown on the iron.

A file to open the mouth (if needed)

A screwdriver to shunt the frog back.

[charlie b]

Finding two boards 5+ feet long that are the width of the sides of the book case could take some searching. Finding two that size that don't have a significant twist, bow, crook orcupping is not trivial

- and "significant doesn't mean Obvious - doesn't take much of any of them to make for trouble along the way or at assembly time.

(if you want to experience "kickback" just start ripping stock that's cupped, bowed, twisted or crooked.)

But there's a bit of work and more than a bit of knowledge and skills, along with several planes, needed to get 5 foot boards flat on both faces, both faces parallel, two parallel straight edges square to the top and bottom faces.

Do you know how to check a board for cupping, twists, bowing etc. so you know where wood must be removed? A flat surface bigger than your board is needed as a reference against which you'll check your progess and identify where you need to work the board some more.

Do you have a way of holding the board on edge so you can plane one straight and square? You can get the other edge straight and square on the table saw after you've got your good edge. But you need one straight, squared edge.

Do yo know how to read the grain so you know which direction to plane in order to avoid tear out, splitting etc., especially on the face of a board that's probably not quarter sawn?

There's a lot to know if you want to Neander, in addition to the physical work involved. You can learn it on project wood, but I wouldn't recomend it. Try a box or a small shelf or cabinet first.

Though I put the following together assuming power tools, if you adjust for hand planing, the info may be helpful (alll one line)

b

[Jeff Gorman]

"Bob Schmall" wrote

: Mike has a good post. Two questions: : 1.How big are your arms? : 2. How's the aerobic conditioning? : Seriously.

Equally seriously, how flat is your bench top?

Jeff G

[Mike Marlow]

You know what Billy? If it weren't for the wonders of the internet and newsgroups like this, you'd have just gone ahead and grabbed your hand plane and given that oak a shot, wouldn't you? Sure you would have - you'd have said to yourself, "self..., let's see what this plane will do", and you'd have kept on talking to yourself until you had that board planed down. Then you'd have said to yourself, "self, I bet I can do the whole thing this way" and you'd have given it a whirl. You'd have probable bungled a couple of things up, but you'd have figured out what you did wrong, fix it and move on. That's the beauty of giving it a try, and just going for it. One of the things the internet (and certainly not the worst thing...) has done is to give too much opportunity to worry about it too much. Too many opinions available, too much advise. The heck with what experienced woodworkers would try. Heck - most of them only try what someone else recommended or what they became comfortable with over time. Try what makes sense to you. It is after all, supposed to be a pleasurable thing. Grab that plane and get into that wood.

[Tim and Stephanie]

-snip-

Good quality, properly cared for and tuned hand tools are a joy to use. I'm sure that many of us here have a story about their first paper-thin shaving out of a freshly-sharpened plane. For me, anyway, it was something like a religious experience.

On the other hand, low quality, beater or dull hand tools are awful, evil and hateful.

I once heard a story from somebody that involved a poorly tuned $5 yard sale plane, a maple bedside tabletop that was nearly perfect, but required maybe one more pass. Poor technique and poor tuning on this fated last pass caused the plane to chatter, leaving nicely spaced digs across the otherwise perfect tabletop. The owner of said plane threw the plane at the benchtop. Rather than cracking like you'd expect a cast-iron plane to do, the plane took its revenge by taking a physics-defying bounce. It went almost completely sideways, right through the shop window, landing softly in the grass outside. That window was not replaced with glass - plexi seemed the more prudent choice. Er, um, at least, that's what I heard...

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:57:08 +0000, Andy Dingley calmly ranted:

Sacre bleu! You can't say that on a family newsgroup! (Oops, this isn't the SoffDreck.)

-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --

[Andy Dingley]

And for small volume metal planes, those are _very_ reasonable prices.

[Dave in Fairfax]

I 2nd the motion. You might want to make a shooting board first though, it'll make jointing easier. I just finished doing the same sort of thing to a bunch of red oak in the hallway. My wife says that you'll enjoy it more if you're younger than me and have a better back. It will tighten up your forearms though. Make some curlies. Dave in Fairfax

[charlie b]

I agreed with this approach for the most part, until it came to the table saw. With a handplane, you may screw up some wood while you learn. With a table saw, especially with unprepared stock, you can screw up some wood AND yourself. Tear out in wood isn't good. Tear out (or amputation) of body parts is more undesirable. With some types of trial and error, the error may involve a trip to the emergency room.

Hand tools operate at human speed. Power tools operate much faster. You can feel when a handtool being used is starting to have a problem - and stop. With power tools, things go bad before you can react.

When a woodworker gives you advice on shop safety, count his or her fingers AND eyes before deciding if youll use the advice.

But back to Mike's advice - there are a lot of things in woodworking that seem too hard and complicated. Often they're not as hard to do as they first appear, coopered doors for example. And sometimes what seems easy and straight foreward isn't - knife hinges for example. (all one line so watch the line wrap)

PRACTICE ON SCRAPS FIRST!

charlie b