Planer v Thicknesser (UK)

[Alan Penn]

Hope those in the US can translate the terminology. Question: If you could only have one of these machines which one would you choose?

Regards Alan

[Jim]

I thought a thicknesser was a sandpaper based tool that took off 1/32" or so at a time while a planer was more for turning rough or too thick stock into a finished board, 1/8" at a time using rotating knives. The former did finished work while the latter's output needed sanding to finish it. It looks like they both mean a planer though, at least in the UK. Good question, sorry I couldn't help.

Jim

[Doug Miller]

If I have the terminology right, what you call a planer we call a jointer, and what we call a planer you call a thicknesser. Sometimes we call it a thickness planer.

If I don't have that right, ignore the rest of this post. :-)

Being from the US, I'm going to use US terminology to avoid confusing myself. I hope I don't confuse you in the process.

If you Google this newsgroup on "jointer planer" you'll find a lot of discussions about this.

IMO the bottom line is that the two machines work very well in tandem, but neither one is especially useful by itself. A jointer makes faces and edges straight and flat, but it cannot make opposite faces parallel. A thickness planer OTOH exists for making opposite faces parallel, but it can't make them straight and flat without the construction and use of additional equipment (Google on "planer sled" for more info), and it can't make edges straight at all. So it's better to have both. Look for used equipment if your budget doesn't permit you to buy new copies of both; you can probably get a used jointer and planer for less than you'd pay for a new jointer. If shop space is the constraint, instead of budget, get mobile bases for both of them, so you can roll them out of the way when not needed. But find a way to get both.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

[George]

If you buy your timber thicknessed, the planer (jointer) will clean up sawblade artifact and make the edge square to the face. You can also thickness boards narrower than the blade width with some care.

If you buy your timber rough, or work in many thicknesses, you need both.

[dustyone]

Alan,

I buy my wood planed to thickness, so my first purchase will be a jointer. With some advanced planning, I can buy all of the stock for a given project, even if it requires many thicknesses.

Curt Blood, Amateur Furniture Builder

[Andy Dingley]

That would depend what I want to use it for.

I have both - ie they're separate machines, not a combined Euro-style machine. The thicknesser is rarely used, the jointer (a planer with a vertical fence) is used regularly. However when I _do_ get the thicknesser out, it's usually to use it solid for a couple of 8 hour days. The jointer typically makes one cut, then the covers go back on.

The thicknesser is one of the most cost effective machines I've ever bought - because of the huge amount of cheap unplaned timber I've put through it and turned into valuable surfaced and thicknessed timber. It paid for itself in the first month I had it.

The jointer could be replaced by a good workbench and a couple of hand planes. Sometimes it is.

You don't need a wide planer - the thicknesser will prepare both sides of a board and produce flat timber.

As to the "Euro question", then I have separate machines because they cost me about the same, lost the wide surface planing I've never needed, but gave me thicknessing for 12" boards (combination planers are either 10" maximum, or very expensive)

If you have a thicknesser, then you;ll be needing a chip collector too. The jointer just has a box underneath its spout.

[Doug Miller]

To properly surface stock, it must be both jointed *and* planed - in that order. You're setting yourself up for problems if you buy lumber already thicknessed, then joint it, but don't have it thickness-planed again *after* jointing.

Here's the reason: thickness-planed = opposite faces parallel (board is the same thickness everywhere). Jointed = one face made straight and flat. Result: opposite face is no longer parallel to the jointed face, and the board needs to be thickness-planed again if you want it to be the same thickness everywhere.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

[Leon]

Opinion # 487

I would get the Thicknesser. I have had a jointer/planer for 22 years, a thicknesser/planer for 16. I am seriously thinking of getting rid of the jointer/planer.

To qualify my decision, space is a premium for me, I do this to make money, and I seldom buy rough cut lumber. Most of my lumber is s3s and has one straight edge to start with with. Both top and bottom are surfaced to almost the thickness that I want. I inspect my lumber before buying and do not buy twisted boards. And, because I this is a business for me, it is cheaper for me in many instances to buy s4s lumber rather than take the time my self to prep all the wood. I never thought I would say that but culling through lumber piles to get s2s or s3s boards of the right dimensions is part of the wood prep process IMHO. When buying s4s lumber, the width of the lumber is predetermined and consistent. Thickness/planing is basically eliminated unless I need thinner stock. A board that may not have a straight edge, s2s can be straightened with a simple jig on the TS and probably more quickly than on a jointer/planer. If a rough cut board is flat, it can be successfully thicknessed with top and bottom parallel using a thickneser/planer.

[Duane Bozarth]

If the two surfaces are planed and parallel to each other, making an edge perpendicular to one face also makes it perpendicular to the other...

Simply jointing the edge will change the relationshiop of the to faces to each other...if one corner angle is less than 90, the other face/corner angle will be the complementary angle.

Ergo, if one buys surfaced material of the desired thickness, one can more easily do w/o the planer (thicknesser) than the jointer.

[Duane Bozarth]

This will (undoubtedly) be a nearly interminable thread, but .... :)

Depends a lot on what you have available or want to use as starting stock.

If you want to buy rough lumber, you'll find both almost indispensable. If you can get a good supply of S2S material, you can do a lot w/o the thicknesser, but virtually all joinery starts w/ a straight edge square to the surface. Thus I would recommend the jointer/planer first in that case.

To add to my reasoning, in most US cities it is possible to find either vo-tech schools or small cabinet shops where one can either enroll for minimal cost or pay a small price and get lumber surfaced, thus minimizing the need for a thicknesser/planer until one gets to the point of doing a significant amount of work.

Of course, all operations be done w/ hand tools and one should learn to do so simply as a matter of course, but unless one is into pure reproduction there's no reason imo not to use machines where appropriate.

HTH...and, of course, IMO, YMMV, $0.02 (US), etc., ... :)

[Andy Dingley]

Only in geometry - this is woodworking.

[Stephen M]

Funny and true. :-)

Hidden in all of that is the false assumption that the presurfaced stock is actuallly flat and straight when you buy it. It's probably pretty flat when they mill it, but it probably has plenty opportunity to "move" after milling. By definition, you de not get to acclimate your stock before milling, because it's milled in someone else's shop.

-Steve

[Duane Bozarth]

the two surfaces are initially parallel, having gone through a properly set thickness planer, working on the edges doesn't change that.

If there's twist and one resurfaces one surface, then it's true one will have destroyed the symmetry, but that's a different operation.

[Teamcasa]

I think it mostly has to do with a few factors. What kind of projects to you like to build? What other machines do you have? How is the lumber you typically buy sold?

I would not give either one up - however, if forced I'd ditch the jointer and use a hand plane.

Dave

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services

---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **

----------------------------------------------------------

[Duane Bozarth]

Stephen M wrote: ...

But that's a different operation (resurfacing)...if the two surfaces are parallel, they'll remain so within the differential expansion of one portion of the same board wrt to another which is going to be quite small...

[Doug Miller]

It's true that once made parallel, they will remain parallel. But if the stock was milled in someone else's shop, once it acclimates to the temperature and humidity conditions in *your* shop, it may no longer be straight and flat.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

[Doug Miller]

Exactly. And that's why face jointing must precede planing.

Yep. That's the operation that should be done *first*.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

[Stephen M]

No. I was really referring to edge jointing

I was trying to dispell the myth that is you bring home S2S stock and then joint one edge that you end up with straight and square stock. It will probably be pretty good most of the time, but occaisionally not so great, depending upon the stock, the time between initial milling and subsequent milling and the change in relative humidity.

True, but not what I was talking about.

[Duane Bozarth]

Stephen M wrote: ...

OK, then I misunderstood the point you were trying to make...sorry.

[George]

RH difference is it. Temperature pretty much a non-player. But why are you preaching heresy? We _all_ know that kiln-dried wood remains the same forever....