Ping Swingman or Bldg contractors-remod specialists.

[OFWW]

Just had a major heart attack. Called a local remodel and bulldog contractor for and preliminary estimate on a room extension of 3O5 SQ FOOT for a living room joined to the house and roof line. less window cost.

There is and entry way of about 21 sq foot.

Also to divide the existing living room up into two rooms by one 13 ft

7in wall install two windows and the necessary sheet rock and electrical. which would be two outlets.

This flipping guy emails back a cost estimate of $305 per sq ft or and I quote, ". You can see that the national average for a mid-range family room is $80,765. It is even more expensive on the West coast, ($95,529).

Then he says, "If I multiplied that by $250 it comes to $76,250 which is close to the national average."

Which one of us is off or wigs?

The original contractor I called guesstimated 10-12 thousand plus 1300 contingency monies. Which seems about right, even if it is a tad high.

Am I being unrealistic here?

[Ed Pawlowski]

Hope you are having a good recovery.

Maybe both of you. What are your specifications? The national average has some rather large extremes and your specs can fall either way.

I suspect a difference in price if the walls are hand cut granite versus 2 x 4 with OSD and Saran Wrap.

[Unquestionably Confused]

[snip]

+1

Devil is always in the details. Specs mean everything and OFWW just hasn't provided enough info to judge the quote one way or the other. What IS telling, however, is the one estimate he received - presumably from someone in whom he confided all the specs and who may have even viewed the current state of affairs. That has me leaning towards agreeing with OFWW that his more recent bidder may be looking to cover this years' overhead in one fell swoop. Still, if OFWW really wants those 18k gold outlet covers and switch plates, who are we to argue? They may look really snazzy with the rosewood baseboards and door casings!

[Greg Guarino]

Keep in mind that I have no expertise in this area at all, but what struck me was not so much the actual cost, but the way the contractor computed/defended it. Unless you are omitting significant details, I see no mention of any specifics.

It reminds me of some (alleged) painters that my wife and I were recommended to when we were very young. They were parishioners at a family member's church, a factor that was supposed to weigh in their favor; evidence of their upright character.

They gave us a price that I can no longer remember, but it sure seemed like a lot (in 1980s dollars) for a pretty small job. When we expressed surprise and dismay at the cost, they defended the estimate, saying that "*We asked professionals*, and they said this was the right amount to charge."

Needless to say, we did the painting ourselves.

[dadiOH]

I tend to avoid those tradesmen who have signs like "Jesus is my crescent wrench" or "Christ is my best bristle brush" because they seem to feel that their piety gives them a license to steal. Sort of like gypsies.

[DerbyDad03]

I once got a roofing estimate from a contractor who told me right up that his quote was going to be 20-30% higher than anyone else's. He defended that by saying that they had the newest trucks in town and special equipment that could get the material to the roof more efficiently than anyone else. He said that he could save at least a half day, maybe a whole day, on the job because his equipment was better.

Translation: I need you to help me re-coup the money I spent on the equipment that will allow me to squeeze more roofing jobs into a week than anyone else.

I politely sent him away in his brand new truck.

[OFWW]

Yeah, seems like there is a lot of those.

[woodchucker]

Similar thing here. A guy locally wanted to pass a law that anyone doing driveway sealing had to use stainless containers. He wrote to the newspaper explaining it. Because guys that did't were undercutting him, and that it made for a higher quality product.

People writting in let him have it.

What a jerk.

[OFWW]

It was supposed to be a close prelim quote to set up the direction we all would go. They came and looked at the jobsite, I gave them a foot print of the pertinent parts of the home and no load bearing walls were to be removed.

Job would consist of stick and drywall. Plaster on the outside to finish coat. Concrete slab for the new living room. Water line to the house Relocated. The new living room would require new power, and the inside finished and new roof tied into existing roof line. 16 1/2 feet by 18 1/2 feet, roughed in for the bay window and an entry way. Just a basic box is all that it is. Insulation to current code.

Kitchen Move outside wall 26" to load bearing beam. window opening roughed it, relocation of water piping and drain line, which would require busting existing concrete and pouring new for the extension. Same finish plaster as the rest, adding a couple electrical sockets, relocation of one light.

Existing living room, Install 13ft 7in wall, stick and drywall, two outlets, one each side. rough in for windows, one each room, and enclose existing large window. insulating outside walls

As to the windows, out glass guy will be supplying me the windows per their spec'd size and the contractor installing them all except the bay window which our glass guy needs to do for warranty purposes. (lifetime)

and that is the basics of it.

I wasn't looking for a quote here since I am in Calif. just rough pricing ideas.

My heart attack was the ridiculous high price, and coming out of a price book no less, like the car dealers job quotes.

My electrical panel had more than enough room.

[OFWW]

He certainly had guts. no brains to speak of.

My wife who watches all the home rebuilding shows who otherwise knows very little about such things was wondering what was with this guy. Even she had an idea of what worst case scenario's would cost.

[Greg Guarino]

Well, what I was really getting at was that these guys - green enough to need to *ask* professional what to charge - quoted us what "professionals" allegedly charge.

I just got a quote for a concrete job. He was obviously working out the job in his head. "It should take a week ... It'll take x yards... it's

1200 sq. ft ... I'll need the pumper truck for two days ... I'll do it for $xxxx.xx That made me feel a little more like the price was based on something.

[Swingman]

Spot on. The above is the most important " ...rest of the story" ... in a nutshell.

The cost to take a structure through framing to dry-in is pretty basic and relatively easy to calculate. It's what comes after that adds to the cost.

And, when comparing bids, it is impossible to do it effectively until you know the precise justification by the bidder, in materials, labor and required specs, for a particular his bids dollar amount.

I never discount a higher bid out of hand until I get the bidder to justify his bid, and explain to me, in detail, why it is higher, AKA, why I should consider it.

And, you will often find that the higher bid might well be a much better deal in overall quality.

I will say that I recently caused to be designed and engineered (and actually permitted), a similar "room addition" to an existing residence (including a structural slab tied into the exiting, as well as roof tie-in) that was +/- 970 square feet room addition.

Just went back and looked at my spreadsheet, and the bid to do that job was going to run in the neighborhood of +/- $147/sf, and a good deal of that was in the foundation, because the existing foundation had a history of issues.

Although I didn't end up doing the job for various reasons, I did get the job completely permitted and felt at the time my initial rough estimate would be pretty close for contract purposes.

That said, and despite the often large disparity in regional prices for materials and labor, more than doubling the OP's mentioned high bid seems pretty much out of line.

[Swingman]

Should have mentioned that there was no plumbing involved in the addition.

[Unquestionably Confused]

[snip]

Yep! When you have a disparity like that you know something is up so it's reasonable that OFWW should be concerned (what with having a heart attack and surviving it and all). Then again we could also speculate that the two folks he was dealing with were an idiot and a crook. Figure out which is which and neither estimate is close to reality for what OFWW wants done.

[Bill]

Thanks for having the conversation here, I definitely learned a few things (that are nice to know)!

Speaking of car dealers: While having other work done at the Buick dealer, I asked them to repair the "glove compartment latch"--which I had already removed. They said it would be $100 for the part and $60 labor, and I would have to come back because they didn't have it in stock. I mentioned that I had seen the part for less than half of that online, and offered them $100 for the replacement, but they declined. I got it for $32 on ebay and replaced the 3 screws myself... It took a little fiddling to move the lock cylinder from the old one to the new one, but it could be done in a minute. Charging upwards of 30K for a new car, I might think they might replace a part like that as a courtesy so that the customer returns to them when it's time for a new car... they (apparently) know better...

[Ed Pawlowski]

Never had a dealer do anything for free. It is not just $160, don't forget the added charge for hazardous materials disposal they like to slip in. Check their price to install a cabin filter you can buy for $10 and install in five minutes. Most get around $60.

[OFWW]

I looked as the last guys pdf, thought it might have been a guesstimate. Naw, it was from some re modelers mag on average costs and list various things like kitchen remod, room extensions, garage doors and the like, and what the percentage of return was.

Had supposed averages from various sections of the country.

According to it, my major kitchen remod would cost 54,000 bucks with a

77% ROI. When it is done I will have spent far less than 3,000 so I guess when I do sell the house I am going to owe you guys a lot of money from the huge profit I'll make. ;) Plus the fun of doing it.

Anyone that would have the gall to enclose something like that in there basic denial of giving a bid is nuts.

I recently had the roof redone with good materials and a 40 year warranty, and part of that is now throw away, but for three walls, a concrete pad, extended Roof and basic outlets in the wall and using just that part of the job for his rough estimate is out of line.

I think I am going to reply to him and let him know I didn't want marble floor, walls and pillars with embedded gold threads running through it.

Looks like I'll be going with the first guy I called, I saw his ROM spreadsheet and I'd say he is in the ball park as a GC, and a nice older guy to boot.

[krw]

Sure, the devil is always in the details. But... I'd think $300/ft^2 was astronomical, too. New construction goes for something around $100/ft^2, and around here, that includes the land - a couple of acres. I understand that it's more expensive to add than to build from scratch and 300 ft^2 isn't a whole house (smaller jobs cost more). OTOH, I didn't see mention of a kitchen or bathroom in there, either.

But what do I know. You do this for a living. ;-)

[krw]

A few decades ago, we needed Roto Rooter out to clean the sewer line. The guy justified his price ($150 in the mid 80s, IIRC) by saying that his power auger cost $5000. OK, that computer on the desk cost $5000, too and his truck in the driveway cost more than both. It's a cost of doing business.

[Bill]

I don't even ask. I do air filters. I replaced my serpentine belt this summer--my neighbor talks like I am "cheating" the system, depriving someone of his or her livelihood...