Jim Behning wrote:
> Now you have me curious. But I do not have any electrician friends and
> do not want to bother a supply house with a "Can I see all three
> receptacles?" What differs among the three grades?
I have been away from the industry to intelligently answer your question.
As far as I can remember, it has to do with the internal construction of
the device, the number of insertion/withdrawal cycles, etc, etc.
Lew
On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 17:39:18 -0700, Lew Hodgett wrote
Mostly.
It also includes more contact surfaces for the sockets (edge and sides of the
plug prongs) and a much more robust metal frame for the mounts and center
screw that holds on the cover plate.
The plastic is also more forgiving against chipping and cracking.
Bad connection on the first receptacle. When you pulled it out to check it,
you jogged it around enough to make contact. The other outlets were fed
through that one.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the connections at that receptacle were
"backstabbed" (using push-in terminals on the back side). If so, you just
found out why backstabbed connections aren't a real good thing. I hope you
used the screw terminals when you installed the new ones.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
The circuit breaker was most likely tripped. On a variety of different
brands of breakers its very difficult to tell if they're tripped by
visual inspection.
I read that to mean the GFCI.
I did notice that the OP said he checked the voltage at the wire lug of
the breaker and read 120V to ground. I've be known to measure voltage
on the wrong breaker occasionally. :-(
I read that to mean the "GFCI breaker" that the OP said he checked and
flipped.
The relevant paragraph in full:
"Yesterday I noticed that neither of the bathroom lights worked. Knowing that
the lights are on the same circuit as my wife's hair dryer (because the lights
dim a little when she fires it up), I deduced that the GFCI breaker had
probably tripped. It didn't look tripped, but I flipped it back and forth to
be sure."
Two specific references in the original post to a "GFCI breaker" mean either
that the GFCI and the breaker are one and the same, or that the OP is using
terminology incorrectly.
I'm gonna go with the former.
Just to clarify a few points . . .
1. I'm talking about a Sqare D 15 amp GVCI circuit breaker. The GFCI
is provided at the breaker, not on a receptacle.
2. I checked the voltage at the wire lug on the breaker several times
and flipped the breaker on and off to verify that the voltage drops to
zero when the breaker is off. By the way, the digital tester
apparently doesn't carry enough current to trip the GFCI when I tested
the voltage from wire lug to ground.
3. All the wiring in the house is copper. This circuit happens to be
14 gauge copper. The house was built in 1976 with 14 gauge wire and a
single GFCI breaker serving lights and receptacles in two bathrooms,
two receptacles in the living room, two kitchen counter receptacles by
the sink and two outside receptacles. Several years ago I split the
circuit, added a second 20 Amp GFCI breaker, and ran 12 gauge copper to
the OTHER bathroom because a hair dryer in either bathroom dimmed the
lights so much, and two at once would trip the breaker (DUH). Without
so many loads on the wire, the 20 amp circuit doesn't dim at all with
the hair dryer, and the 15 amp dims just enough to notice if you're
watching it.
My main question was whether the most likely culprit was the old
receptacle with stab-in connectors or a loose connection at the
breaker. I think you've convinced me it was probably the receptacle.
Thanks for all the replies.
DonkeyHody
"Every man is my superior in that I can learn from him."
Was the device use to connect the wires in the run. If so that is what
was wrong, pigtailing to the device ensures voltage beyond a bad plug
(device).
Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618
This the most significant post in this thread. Good electrical
workmanship requires receptacles in series to be pigtailed. Most
building codes require it. And sadly, way too few DIY'ers ever do it.
My pair of pennies.
Joe
See, I learn something new every day. I didn't know wiring in series
was a substandard way of doing it. Most every receptacle I ever pull
out of a box uses the receptacle itself to transfer the power down the
line. And most of them have the wires stabbed in the back instead of
screwed to the side. I can see the advantages of pigtails, and I'll do
it that way from now on. I don't think I'll go yanking my receptacles
out to retrofit though. Thanks for the tip.
DonkeyHody
"Every man is my superior in that I can learn from him."
Wire nuts with pigtails with a machine crimped lug. Fast efficent and
now when the problem reoccurs (and it will) having some around will
make for quick repairs.
Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618
I believe pigtails are required by National Electric code now. The city
here gives out a booklet to homeowners doing their own wiring and lists
common things that homeowners miss and pigtails are listed as a
requirement.
Brian Elfert
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:31:24 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:
Only NEC requirement I know of is that a device will be removable with
out interrupting the neutral in a run. Kind of implies that the
neutral be pigtailed.
Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618
Got a cite for that? <g>
Seriously, I've never seen that one either. Doesn't mean it isn't there... but
I'll have to see it in the Code before I believe it.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Yep -- that's because opening the neutral on a multiwire branch circuit
results instantly in a 240V potential across 120V devices. AFAIK there's no
general requirement to pigtail anything, just in that one circumstance.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
I don't see how a 120 device (wired with one current carrying conductor,
a grounded conductor and a grounding conductor) can suddenly have a
240V potential simply because the grounded conductor no longer is.
My assumption here vis-a-vis multiwire circuits are those
where two current carrying conductors
from different legs are paired with a grounded conductor to allow
e.g. 12-3NM w/g to provide two distinct 120V branch circuits, or
in a commercial setting using 208 three phase using 4 wires to
provide 4 120 circuits.
scott
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