Old sander broke. What do I want?

[Greg Guarino]

I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project. Up until last week I used a palm sander that I've had for maybe 15 years. It was nothing special, but seemed adequate for my low level use.

It died.

I see a lot of these random orbit units, mostly 5". They seem to all use hook and loop paper. I have questions.

Is the 5" size too small? It's no smaller than my palm sander was, but if I'm buying something new anyway...

Is hook & loop the only option, or are there decent sanders that use regular paper? Which do you prefer?

Are there any particular models you recommend? I'm hoping to get something for under $100.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Guarino

[SonomaProducts.com]

Palm and orbital are really different animals. The orbital will take off more material but with a light hand it can do generally the same job as a palm and is therefore more versatile.

Hook and loop is the way to go. The pad portion on th sander can be replaced after it wears out. Your other option is the stickem variety and not good. No one has invented a way to use regular paper on a round orbital yet that I have seen.

All th> I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf

[Lew Hodgett]

5" will get a lot of work done.

If you are an ocassional user as you suggest, it will certainly be acceptable.

Your choices are H&L and PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive).

H&L paper is slightly more expensive by a small amount.

Personally, I prefer H&L since trying to keep a PSA surface clean is more of a PITA than I am willing to accept.

Lew

[dpb]

Greg Guarino wrote: ...

...

I'd recommend the 5" for casual/occasional use.

I'm partial to the PC although I don't like the new revisions as well as those of roughly 10 years ago. But, if you only use it occasionally for relatively short periods at a time you'll probably not ever observe the primary problem of the pad "brake" -- it's just an o-ring around a fixed stud. W/ continuous use the friction heats the sucker to the point of discomfort and fries bearings early. I remove it first thing on a new one.

As opposed to the other two earlier posts, I prefer the PSA for the bulk of the work although if one changes grits frequently H&L has some advantage. Again, for light/infrequent use, the cost of abrasive is probably of no concern but H&L is roughly 50% more than PSA and w/ heavy use it adds up.

I keep about three and have both H&L and PSA pads for at least two of them so can simply switch at a whim depending on what am doing at the time.

Overall, they're basically throwaway items -- if at all possible go to a place and handle them; comfort and feel and convenience of on/off switch is a biggie. I personally haven't found any other that is nearly as comfortable ergonomically as the PC and its knockoffs. Many of the others are taller, have sharper corners, lousy switch designs or other pita details...

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[Ed Edelenbos]

Agreed on all of Lew's points. The stick 'em discs suck. If you forget once to take it off, you'll spend more time cleaning the pad than sanding your next project. Going with an outfit like:

is possible to stock your sandpaper needs for years to come pretty darned cheaply.

About 15 years ago I bought a Sears Industrial 4.5" model and quickly converted it to H&L. About a year ago, I replaced the pad. It runs every bit as it should and does a great job. I think all of theirs are H&L and 5" these days.

Ed

[Lew Hodgett]

If you pay a 50% premium for H&L, somebody saw you coming.

I use 6" on a Bosch 3727 and last time I bought paper, 60 grit and finer was less than $25/100 (std box) for H&L.

Maybe you need to find a new source.

Lew

[Lew Hodgett]

Lew

[Max]

I have several sanders: Milwaukee 6010 orbital 1/2 sheet Makita BO4556 1/4 sheet Porter Cable 7336, 6" ROS, (PSA) Ridgid 26001, 5" ROS, (hook & loop) Ridgid 2611, 6", ROS, " " Bosch 3727, 6", " " " Milwaukee 6021-21, 5", ROS (H & L) plus belt sanders of various sizes.

The sheet sanders, bought before the ROS were widely available, rarely gets used. The Milwaukee ROS gets the *most* use. The Porter Cable is the most aggressive, (I believe it's because the abrasive sheet is more firmly attached, but that's just MHO) I *think* you would be most satisfied with the Milwaukee 6021 (but that's just MHO)

Max

[Ed Edelenbos]

Where do you buy?

Ed

[Lew Hodgett]

Klingspor.

Buy boxes of 100/grit/box.

Have them shipped UPS.

Lew

PS: Sometimes need to buy more than one box to meet minimum order.

[HeyBub]

Here's an orbital sander for $12.00 that uses regular sand paper.

's a hook-and-loop palm sander for $13.00

[Leon]

NO not too small. I have been using that size for 20+ years. Random orbit sanders can ve very agressive so large is not needed to cover a large area quick.

You want to up grade from regular paper. Why! Because regular paper will never fit as tightly as hook and loop or PSA backed paper. Why is this improtant? Becase all of the action og the sander and paper is transmitted to the work. Regular clamp fit paper tends to permit the sander pad to not transfer all the action to the paper and work. In many cases the paper will simply grab the work and let the sander vibrate on the back side of the paper and often the only work being done is when you are moving the sander.

Hook and loop is prefable if you dont wear your sand paper out before changing grits. If you use only one grit and always remove the paper after a day of use, PSA, Pressure Sensitive Adhesive sand paper is cheaper. Hook and loop is probably your best bet.

Porter Cable, DeWalt

[Robatoy]

Excellent point. As per usual. (Well.. other than *cough* SSKK

*cough*....) . . . :-)

[Phisherman]

Milwaulkee makes an excellent ROS. Small projects, small sanders, Big projects, big sanders.

There are ROS that use self-sick sandpapers. The hook-and-loop type is better for changing papers quickly and better at being reusable.

[Ed Edelenbos]

Ah... I don't need anywhere near that quantity. For what I need, Stockroom is fine. And, sometimes more time is spent trying to save money than money is saved. (If that makes sense.)

Ed

[Leon]

I'm gonna defend PSA paper a little bit here. A "good quality" PSA paper is no harder or slower to replace than a Hook & Loop paper. For many years I used 3M PSA paper exclusively, I got it for free. The body shop guys would not have put up with a hard to replace paper had PSA been a PIA to use.

After leaving the automotive business and loosing my free source for 3M paper I switched to Porter Cable paper and it was just as easy to deal with.

Then as per the advice given here, recommending Klingspore paper, I bought a roll of PSA disks. That stuff was CRAP! It sanded well but I now know why so many consider the PSA paper a PIA to remove. Klingspore offered no help. I just knew that I had a bad roll, apparently not. Good PSA paper "does not" need a peel off separator to keep the adhesive from sticking to the pieces below.

Oddly I now only use H&L or until Festool makes pads to accept it.

[Robatoy]

Then there is that little known problem that Hook & Loop and Velcro do not always play nice together. I seem to recall, there is also a third player in the H&L business, again, a wee bit different.

The Festool H&L grabs Mirka Abranet like dog snot to a screen door, some of the pads on other sanders, such as Ridgid, not so much. The Lee Valley replacement hook pad, doesn't hang onto all papers either.

[Lew Hodgett]

Then there is that little known problem that Hook & Loop and Velcro do not always play nice together. I seem to recall, there is also a third player in the H&L business, again, a wee bit different.

The Festool H&L grabs Mirka Abranet like dog snot to a screen door, some of the pads on other sanders, such as Ridgid, not so much. The Lee Valley replacement hook pad, doesn't hang onto all papers either.

SFWIW, Klingspor H&L works well with Bosch 3727.

If you do any work with a foam pad, you are stuck with PSA, with 3M "green stikit" being the best.

Lew

[dpb]

Klingspor, typically. Been a while since needed to reorder I checked--seems closer than I recalled at the moment; about 25-30% differential. Not huge unless use a lot as we were when prepping the barn...

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[Lew Hodgett]

I use Klingspor.

100pc/grit/box are less than $25/box for 6" H&L.

The only exception is 40 grit which is maybe $26-$28/box.

Lew