O/T: Need To Build A Puter

[Bill]

An "entire day" huh? I trust the people making comments like this are the same ones that walk into a woodworking store and buy a TS on the first visit. I almost hate to say it, and it may be difficult to believe, but I think a computer is at least as complicated as a TS and you can easily, even accidentally, devote as much time to choosing the components for one. For instance, try to answer the question, "Which SSD drive" should I choose? A year ago, there was a clear answer, but "marketing" will (try to) obscure your ability to find it.

After choosing an SSD (or HDD) you can play the same game with "Which graphics card?". You should probably choose your platform and MB before you choose your SSD or HDD. It's sort of a circular process, with your applications leading the way, and some choices dependent on others (consider various HDD interfaces available).

Not all graphics cards fit in all cases, but I also expect that no one here is afraid to cut sheet metal. Anyone can build a computer and it's getting easier every year, it seems. I'm just sayin'.

I blew the $10 on an anti-static mat, and in the wintertime I left a pot of water on the stove to create humidity while I installed the components, but that's just me. In California the steam is probably unnecessary.

Bill

So I paid a friend of mine to build it for me at

[Bill]

That may explain it. Last time I talked to them over the phone was 12 years ago. More recently, I bought my wife a laptop from them and never had a problem with it until she dropped it. That left the screen unstable, but usable in a desktop configuration, and I never contacted them about that...

I didn't realize that retail computers had dropped in quality so much. My Dell (1998) was the only prebuilt one I bought and it worked fine. In speaking to customer service at that time, two out of three of Dell's people were helpful, and a third spewed incorrect information.

Bill

[Lew Hodgett]

--------------------------------- I had a hunch, thanks for the confirmation.

Dell is a non starter for me.

Lew

[Bill]

Bad experience, huh? IIRC, Fry electronics used to assemble computers from parts purchased by the customer. They didn't do it for free, but (the important thing is that) it would mostly relieve you of needing to become involved if a component breaks down the road... Hope this helps.

Bill

[FrozenNorth]

I worked for a "grey" market computer dealer back in the mid to late eighties and have built literally hundreds if not thousands of machines. Back then between the proprietary parts in Compaqs, microchannel stuff in the IBM boxes, and just the odd assortment of stuff built into the clones you had to know what you were doing, just to get it to work.

IRQs, I/O addresses, DMA channels etc., now days, if it will fit, it pretty much is guaranteed to work, not to say there is no research involved, but the actual technical knowledge required is a lot less.

[Bill]

Yes, I was around computers during those time too. Sun and DEC were kings of a sort. I've only built 4 systems, but "Guaranteed to work" is not a suitable standard for a computer for me. I would want to know:

- The manufacturer and rating of the power supply (PSU) - How well does it run OpenGL (I like SketchUp) - I need all the processing power I can justify with respect to cost (to run programs most people don't have or need). - Is is 64 bit compatible, which OS am I getting (pro?) - How much noise (db) does each component make, how well does the case insulate noise (best do your own homework).

"Guaranteed to work" doesn't consider any of the above. Let's not even get into "monitors" or "mouses" and keyboards--I am sort of particular about them. I'm currently quite pleased with Dell's "Ultrasharp". I'm not adequately familiar with the current model/version to comment. I really, really like MS Natural (shaped) keyboard.

Yes Froze, I agree. Almost anyone can build a computer without knowing about a single thing I wrote about above, and feel justly proud of the accomplishment. And I'm sure it will work fine.

Consider Levels 0-5 of drywall finishing. Sometimes level 3 is good enough. However, in general, I prefer the following quotation: "Good enough is seldom good enough".

I wonder how much time manufacturers spend sharpening those drill bits that they sell 160 for $40? I wonder how much time Fry's spends threading wires through the case to ensure good air flow? I don't know the answers to either question, but the kid would probably be on break before I was finished.

Bill

[Lew Hodgett]

-------------------------------- Another non starter when it comes to puters.

Lew

[Bill]

You had a bad experience with Frys too? Usually you'd be sitting down and having a beer by now. You don't hesitate to point me to Harbor Freight. Why all the trouble with this?

Compared to a few years ago, you can buy a computer and replace it in 6 months if it breaks and still be ahead.

I just went and checked, and I noticed BestBuy has a desktop for $279. Of course, as you know, you get what you pay for...

I think you'd probably be on perfectly "reasonable" ground with a new Dell. But if you're not willing to chance it, I can respect that. Keep counting the hours involved and good luck with your decision.

Bill

By the way, I've heard MaximumPC Magazine puts their issues online for free after 1 month (I subscribe). If you look through a few issues of that, it should bring your up to date enough to make some hardware decisions if you want to build your own. tomshardware.com is another very good site for helping to design a computer. Personally, I wouldn't go the liquid-cooling route.

[Josepi]

Crap! I am in Canada and ordered two 2TB external harddrives for my kids on the week of last Christmas last year. I ordered them on Monday and they arrived on Wednesday, two days later, and three days before Christmas!

The price was slightly more than half the staples prices (I bought one locally just in case the timing didn't work out), the quality of the brand was better (had sleep modes and lower power) and I took the one back to Staples and got almost the same amount refunded as the two from NewEgg.ca.

They shipped the units from New Jersey somewhere, cleared customs and was at my door in under two days! Online I could track them and was informed of the delivery time within an hour of stated ETA. I have always been impressed with these guys. Their website has lots of feedback ratings and warranty coverage stories where they have stood behind their products. Their tech help has been available in the past for "tweaking" hardware and software to make it work when I called, also.

------------

The prices are good,you can choose your parts individually and they will be there the next day.

[Lew Hodgett]

------------------------------- I don't do HP which includes Compaq.

Same with Gateway.

Lew

[FrozenNorth]

They make great servers, but PCs and laptops, not so much, from recent experience. I am *very* happy with my current toshiba laptop.

[Lew Hodgett]

----------------------------- My friend also likes hers.

Lew

[m II]

Dell makes garbage by attempting to lock you into their custom modified O/S software.

If you think otherwise you have never tried to rebuild one from the ground up, software wise. If you can't identify all the drivers by their secret codenames the regular versions of Windows will not install, either.

I won't touch them again after years of attempting to get tech help from their Pakistan office people.

Lew Hodgett wrote:

How bad was your experience BestBuy and HP (who acquired Compaq in

2002)? Just curious.

Dell gives you quite a few options in building a system. You might also look at some of their pre-built (returned, I guess) systems for a good price. To do this click on "outlet" towards the right of their main menu at dell.com to see if you can find something suitable.

Bill

[John]

Are you wanting to build a computer, or to find someone who can build one for you?

If the latter, I have no advice for you. If the former, I have one and only one suggestion, based on personal experience:

Reply-to address is real

-- John

[J. Clarke]

But when it doesn't work it's a bear. In theory there are ways to override the automatic assignment of IRQs, I/O addressed, DMA channels, etc, and in theory there are now enough to go around anyway, but in practice every once in a while you get two boards sharing an IRQ or the like that just plain don't like each other, and getting them moved to different IRQs etc can be a royal pain. Used to be with 8-slot machines you could play musical boards until the problem went away. Now there aren't all that many slots and they aren't all ther same.

[m II]

These days the CPUs are so fast and the drivers are actually written properly to enable sharing or IRQs and DMA channels without crashing. Most of the MoBos have more IRQs now anyway.

[nailshooter41]

Hmmm.... reading your posts, it does seem that you might have a bit of a comprehension problem. I never said I picked out all components for construction in a day. I never said that I checked parts for maximum compatibility in a day. I never said I bought a case, fan, power supply, video card, memory, in a day, nor any other part.

Having all carefully selected parts in front of me (last two computers I labored over parts for a month), I can indeed get one together in an eight hour period.

Might I

the same ones

that don't read and understand the written language? Ones that might jump to conclusions based on their own arrogance?

With little doubt, I would say that anyone that did not select their parts beforehand is an idiot. Was that your assumption, even though it was never expressed, written, or alluded to in any way by me?

With all selected parts in hand, my computer guy can put a machine together in a couple of hours, install the OS, and run all his diagnostic software in a couple of more. He can have a new machine out the door in 4 - 5 hours, but her prefers overnight self diagnostics. He has done it for me and my business associates many, many times as he does it all day long. The diagnostics run far longer than the assembly time from him.

As I said, for me, it would take a full day (if all assembly went right and there were no DOA parts.)

It appears, your mileage may vary.

Robert

[Bill]

This is what YOU WROTE:

As for me, I split the difference. Although I don't mind working on one, I didn't want to build it myself either as I would be spending an entire day doing it. So I paid a friend of mine to build it for me at the going rate of $100, including having him do all diagnostics on the machine and print out reports. I got it from him, took it home, hooked up the monitor, modem, mouse and speakers and off I went.

You didn't want to spend an "entire day" building a computer??? My reply was NOT directed at you. I wrote: I trust the "people making comments like this". That was not meant to include you. Just forget it and go on with your life. F*** your arrogance.

[Bill]

Gosh, I hope so. Like you said when you were being a jerk, that's not the time-consuming part.

[Swingman]

Been patiently waiting for my six year old Dell XPS M1210 laptop to die so I could upgrade, but it just won't quit.

(that oughta do it)