'nuther Electric wiring query

'Standard practice' is to run _different_ colors of 'hot' wire. With all the wiring on a given phase being the same color. I use different colors for each hot phase, _and_ unique colors for any 'switched' hot leads. If I have 3 switched leads in the same place, they'll be three different colors -- e.g. 'yellow', 'pink', 'blue'. With this kind of set-up, if you find a 'non-red/black' - neutral pair, you *know* you can't _trust_ that the *circuit* is dead, just because there's no power across the pair. Gotta find the switch (or switches!!) first. and check _there_.

Any competent electrician, does any breaker 're-arranging' only _within_ a single color. Or *thoroughly* investigates the details, and then 'marks'

*both*ends* of any wires that get 'moved' to a different phase. *AFTER* having made sure that neutral load currents are _not_ exceeded.

This is practically 'no-brainer' stuff for a professional. The amateur that doesn't understand stuff at this level, should *not* be messing in the panel.

This is also why =many= communities have a 'basic wiring' test that you have to pass, _as_a_homeowner_, before you can get a permit for 'do it yourself' work. These exams are _not_ difficult -- their primary purpose is to ensure that you know enough to not to anything 'dangerously stupid' in _residential_ wiring.

Reply to
Robert Bonomi
Loading thread data ...

What you want to do is legal and safe only so long as each of the two circuits are a different phase (i.e. a different leg of the 220v). It is also considered wise to handle-tie both breakers (or use a 220v breaker) so that you cannot have a situation where one conductor is live and the other isnt.

If the current carrying conductors are on different phases the current in the grounded conductor approaches zero. If they are on the same phase, the current in the grounded conductor will be the sum of the current in each of the current carrying conductors. This would be considered bad (e.g. 40 Amperes through a AWG 12 conductor).

scott

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

Which is, of course, exactly the reason that code prohibits doing that way.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

Reply to
Doug Miller

It seems to me that it's a pretty common thing. There are no requirements for tagging it that I'm aware of, but if it's wired properly (double-pole breaker, and 12/3 wire, with red and black hot wires) the installation itself should be sufficient to identify it as what it is -- and with a double-pole breaker, it's impossible to break it up by rearranging the breakers.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

Reply to
Doug Miller

Not by someone who understands what he's doing, anyway, but it certainly *can* be wired that way. Doesn't mean it's right, of course... and anyone who doesn't understand how GFCIs work, and how current flows in an Edison circuit, is going to be left scratching his head wondering why the GFCI on leg 'A' trips as soon as he flips on a light switch on leg 'B'.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

Reply to
Doug Miller

"John Moorhead" wrote in news:Xt1sd.37813$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:

Wire's cheap. Don't skimp.

Patriarch

Reply to
patriarch

Gotta add "incapable of reading _and_following_ the directions" to the skill- set.

All the instructions I've seen were _quite_ explicit about using the 'load' side terminals on a GFCI outlet only for wiring to a downstream isolated outlet. That you had to run _both_ wires from the 'load' side of the GFCI to the other outlets. In fact, as they come out of the box, both the load side fittings are taped over (single piece of tape), so you -can't- 'accidentally connect something up to them.

Reply to
Robert Bonomi

Doug is absolutely correct in his posts on this, IME. In fact consider that if someone wanted a "group" of outlets in one box from two circuits,

12/3 would be the safest way to do it (with all Doug's caveats about the breakers). (It may be required under the NEC to have all hot wires within a box controlled by the same breaker, or paired breakers, but I have unfortunately encountered boxes that are hot from separate breakers.) It is common in my non-pro experience to use 12/3 to run series of outlets along a counter, switching circuits back and forth along the way. For example, in a kitchen. -- Igor
Reply to
igor

I think that is correct. OTOH, sometimes one must tag a white wire as black (hot), such as in a 2-wire (plus ground) 240 circuit or in some 3-way switch configs. -- Igor

Reply to
igor

The NEC requires that all ungrounded conductors be capable of being disconnected simultaneously by a single disconnecting means. A single, two-pole breaker is by far the easiest way of achieving this, but it isn't the only method that complies with that requirement. E.g. two widely separated single-pole breakers, connected with a rigid handle tie, would satisfy.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

Reply to
Doug Miller

Right. Technically, it doesn't even have to be marked black; it could be marked any color _other_than_ white, gray, green, or green with a yellow stripe.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

Reply to
Doug Miller

Patriarch -

I agree, the issue isn't cost... It's time and effort... If I could run a single 12/3 and get two circuits, it would save another run... But after reading all of these posts, I've taken the 12/3 back and will play it safer and have two complete separate runs for 20a circuits using 12/2 and GFCI's with other outlets connected "downstream"

Believe me... I haven't skimped on ANYTHING with this project - ask my wallet!

John

Reply to
John Moorhead

Hello there -

Well, a wealth of posts to the point of confusion as to who's saying what... anyway, I *am* a layman, and apparently don't have the nomenclature korrect, I want a total of 4 plug-thingies in a double box, thus two pair... the left on 1 circuit and the right on the 2nd circuit... But, for now, I have decided to just run 12/2 and say the hell with it...

Reply to
John Moorhead

LOL ... I stand corrected.

Reply to
Swingman

"John Moorhead" wrote in news:%6bsd.53775$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

That's been pretty obvious from the pictures and the enthusiasm.

I think I've spent almost as much on the electrical work as I did on the Unisaw. I don't worry that it wasn't done right, however.

There are more than enough things that go bump in the night...

Patriarch

Reply to
patriarch

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.