The one thing I never understood, especially about his brad-fetish is that people keep saying he's only got so much time. Um... they can put it in clamps and turn off the camera, you know. Glue doesn't take that much time to dry.
I think you're missing the point. It's not the fact that Norm uses all power tools, it's the fact that he's producing a show aimed mainly at beginners who won't have access to those tools. There's nothing wrong with the tools, but I think there's something questionable about suggesting that woodworking can't be done without them. I think it's going to drive some people on a budget away from the hobby, just because it gives the impression you need a huge, well-stocked workshop to do anything.
There's a right way and a wrong way to do things. When Norm is shooting brads into face frames where they'll be very visible in the end, that's the wrong way. Otherwise, I don't care what he does with them. There's a time and a place for every tool, but no tool that deserves to be used in every place and every time.
As far as the finishing, he's supposed to be showing how to do good work. If he hasn't learned how to finish, and in all the years he's been doing this, he should have learned something, then he shouldn't try showing it on TV. Have his staffers do the finishing and show the completed project at the end. It does no good to have beginning woodworkers look at his finishing techniques and say "Yuck".
I don't know of anyone getting worked up over it, but people are pointing out where a good show can, and should, be better. Is there something wrong with suggesting that there is room for improvement?
Norm is a fantastic guy in person, I've met him a couple times and he's the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet, I just wish he'd be able to correct a couple things on his TV show.
I like the Minwax finishing wax. It is a great screw lube. I started off using the "good stuff" in the beginning and on occasion used what the customer brought me from a hardware store or the Borg. Typically it was a Minwax stain and typically every other piece had spots that would not accept the stain. Oddly my own stain would cover the spot. I learned to use my stain in these spots after sanding and scraping the spot did not help the Minwax stick.
One would think that but that guy on WoodWorking that makes Norm look like the Rembrandt of furniture builders by comparison, uses a lot of Miniwax products. He is the one that does not know that a SCMS is not a RAS and, I swear, must use 60 grit sand paper against the grain as his final touch before applying stain. I saw Norm visit him at the Minwax facility while they talked about stains. That is probably the whole problem.
Well I think they are looking for volume and realize that for the most part they don't have many pro's using their product as a first choice. If you have never heard of the good brands and only stained a project or 2 in your life time how are you going to know there are better products or where to get them when a Borg is close by.
Well there are many many people out there that like that look. Furniture stores are loaded up with the stuff with similar finishes. I have built beautiful pieces for customers and they loved the finish and then turn around and show me their favorite "this or that" and I would believe you if you told me that the surface was Formica. Typically you see no grain and most of the time I don't know if it is wood or painted MDF. LOL
Yeah.
LOL... Hand me a towel now...
Exactly
The two shows are really aimed at different audiences
Dang it Brian... does that mean I am gunna have to stop watching one? LOL
Production crew time costs $. Production crew sitting on their thumbs waiting for glue to dry wastes $.
Pete C.
How much time do you think that would add to the taping? How many $ per hour do you think the crew and equipment costs?
Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 4:31pm: snipped-for-privacy@Locutus.com (Locutus) doth wonder: I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to believe?
All you have to remember is: Norm is good. Roy is good. Bob is evil.
Anyway, you've got to admire anyone who can make a piece of furniture in a half-hour, including commercials.
JOAT I'd like to give you a going away present. Just do your part.
Where can you download episodes? I've only seen VHS offered?
"Brian Henderson"
Ha! $10,000 wouldn't buy a quarter of Norm's tools.
My problem with Norm's show is watching him push piece after piece through his machines. How about cutting those parts of the show and a little more on setup etc. I have been watching and respecting Norm long before he built the medicine cabinet. I think the fit and finish of his joints is superb. I don't use brads to hold it while the glue dries and my favorite wood is cherry and my favorite finish is Danish oil, sometimes with a coat or two of poly. If I could afford the tools he has I would have them also. I still watch his show and the reruns faithfully, although I do tend to doze off now and again watching him push wood through tue table sawrer or routah.
Those router guys are sure good for insomnia. And their imprecise fence setups are amazing to watch too. Loosen and hit with your fist. You better get it right the first time because it will e hard to repeat anything.
As for Nahm, I cringe everytime I hear that lawyer mandated safety lecture. Since he does all kinds of things that I would never do safety wise. He just LOVES to run things through the tablesaw and router table with his fingers VERY close to some rapidly spinning metal.
Sometimes I put my hands in my pocket or behind me whenhe does that. It is hard to watch.
I've never seen them hit it with their fist; they always use their "fine adjusting tool" (a hammer), which actually is capable of a wide range of incremental impact forces. I thought it hilarious the first time I heard it several years ago and still find it amusing. It's also extremely effective.
In actuality, they are far more precise in their setups than a lot of "experts" are--as the elder points out, "ol' Bob don't measure much." They gauge most of their setups on actual tool and/or material dimensions, or gauge blocks, and rarely use any sort of measuring device, which could lead to memory or interpretive error.
Having watched every episode several times, I feel compelled to point out that the magic of long (telephoto) lenses often makes his fingers appear much closer to the blade than they actually are. If one is unaware of the foreshortening effects of such lenses it is easy to get the impression the fingers are dangerously close, when in reality, they are every bit as far away as you or I would have them.
So why show any of the construction process? Time is money, remember? If they really were worried about that, they could have something they glued together earlier, like they do on cooking shows.
Nope, both shows have different things to offer, just like Popular Woodworking and Fine Woodworking have different things to offer. Both are good, in their own way.
Don't you love that? Every time I'm watching Norm and he goes into his "Let's take a moment to talk about shop safety", she always adds "And watch you ignore it all."
On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:44:10 -0700, "GeeDubb"
Do I hear the makings of a sad shop story there? :)
Matt
"Lee Michaels" wrote in news:UPCdnXveU8m_rJrZnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:
I find it instructive to look at his fingers when they show a close-up of stuff he's holding. Purple finger nails, band-aides, and healing cuts. He's definitly not superman.
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