On 28 Dec 2003 05:16:57 -0800, email@example.com (Alan W)
nah. set the blade to just kiss the high point. flip the board and
repeat. takes a while, but works well. if the board was WAY bent, I'd
trim it down a bit first with a skilsaw and chalkline or handheld
I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own lumber.
The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you explain it
here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a jointer
would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I couldn't do
with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
It is used for dlatening a board
The way i look at it if i need to run it over the jointer to flatten it then
the board was not any good anyway.
If i have a piece that I particuarly like for some reason and it was twisted
i may hit it with a hand plane or run it thru the planer with a sled to get
rid of the twist,
Neither happens to often
Yes, most woodworkers should own a jointer. The correct and acceptted
way to surface rough lumber is to face joint the material across the
jointer, joint one edge, plane to thickness, and then rip on the table
saw to width. One thing that all the professional that come to my
school to teach have taught me, they are all insistent about face
jointing the lumber and squareing the lumber up. You must face joint
your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can
not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer.
A planer only thicknesses lumber, it does Not make it square.
Now if you are building simple crafts or yard ornaments then you
can get by not using a jointer. If you wish to build a professional
quality heirloom piece of furniture then one must buy a jointer and
learn how to use it.
Mike from American Sycamore
Since you are on the subject... I have been in the market for a 6" jointer
and have recently considered that an 8" jointer might be a smarter buy. My
planned projects are mainly furniture (A queen bedroom set for my daughter,
dressers, tables, etc..) I would classify my woodworking skills as moderate,
and am restarting this hobby after a few years hiatus. The 6"/8" jointers I
have looked at are of the Grizzly line. Any thoughts?
If you can swing the price difference then an 8" is definately the way
to go. That's not to say a hobbiest can't get by just fine with a 6".
If your budget dictates a 6" or nothing then go for the 6". If the
price difference won't hurt you then go with the 8".
The 8" Grizzly is a real steal. I've heard nothing but praise for it.
I have the Geetech from Sunhill and they look like the same machine.
Scott Post firstname.lastname@example.org http://home.insightbb.com/~sepost /
Sorry Mike I have to disagree with that assertion,
This to me is just an urban myth in the woodworking field
A jointer is probably one of the last tools any shop needs if at all
I know that is not going to change any ones mind of which I do not in any
way attempt to do.
But it is so wrong to teach that this is the only accepted way to do
What ever happened to good old thinking of "hell there has to be a different
way" which may or may not be better but in most cases just as good and not
to buy a machine that is really not needed.
I have always worked with the attitude of hell there has got to be a better
easier way to accomplish any thing and still maintain quality,
I try to instill this in anyone that has worked for me over the years.
I can still take any twisted board and run it thru a planer on a sled and
get it as flat as anyone can with a jointer.
There is really nothing carved in stone in this work, try, attempt your
idea's are not all that weird.
You addressed your post to "Dear Woodworker"
What does this mean, I would like to hear of yours and anyone else's
opinions of what does "Woodworker"
Please no quotes from Webster's etc, I can read
I proved for 30 years that I really didn't _need_ one, and figured out many
ways to overcome the lack thereof ... didn't really miss one till I got one.
Now that I have a better one than the first one I had, I like having one
One more tool that I can leave "set up" in the middle of something can be a
big time saver. In the middle of cutting and fitting drawer parts drawers,
with the dado set in the table saw for cutting the back and bottom grooves,
I need a 32nd off the height of that drawer side ... no problem, one pass
over the jointer and done in 10 seconds.
A jointer is a luxury? ... maybe. Not at all unlike a wife, if you read the
first paragraph again with that in mind.
I know what you mean--I initially got a cheap import model, all shiny
at first but the motor whined rather than purred, frequently broke
down and always gave an unsatisfactory edge, no matter how many times
I ran a board through. I was mad at first when it was stolen, but
after having upgraded to an American model my boards have become much
straighter and I couldn't be happier.
...on a slow day trying any sophomoric diversion rather than working
on the paper I should be writing.
So I know that this post is in vain, however I will not argue with
Frank Klausz, Andy Rae, Tom Laird, Dale Barnard, Darrell Peart, David
Sochar, and and and etc....all professional wood workers that they
"walk the walk" they just do not talk about woodworking. One can not
argue when you see the work that these people create.
And as far as my greeting, "Dear Woodworker" Is this not
rec.woodworking? A web site for woodworkers?
Good Luck Dear Woodworker,
Mike from American Sycamore
I have no Idea who these people are.
Are they believer's in the Jointer myth?
That does not mean that they cannot produce good work,
They are entitled to their beliefs, I wouldn't take that from them or even
What is a pity is that you are teaching people to close their minds to a
method that is absolutely "not" the only way to accomplish a particular
task. Or that it is even all that necessary in the first place.
I'm not a follower, I keep an open mind to all new ideas, and innovations.
And try different things even against the so called only one way methods.
My work has always spoke for me.
And as far as "Woodworker" I was pretty sure you had no idea what the name
You're making a fool of yourself here.
nobody has said here that you cannot get by- or even do good work-
without a jointer.
you might (or not...) want to look up some of the folks Mike cites.
practise a little of your own open mindedness.... Mike teaches
woodworking- so yes, he has opinions about what is proper and all- but
nowhere has he said that good work cannot be done without a jointer.
he said "most woodworkers should own a jointer"
jointers exist for a reason.
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:55:12 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
Bridger do you always make a statement about a subject without
understanding it ????
"You must face joint
your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can
not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer. "
Now that is a pretty bold statement that is not true never has been and
never will be.
Anyone believing it is entitled to their beliefs and as I said in MY posts I
am not trying to change anyone's mind about anything.
What I stated is that there are other ways to do the same thing and to get
Had this remark came from you or anyone else in this group I more than
likely would have ignored it.
However Mike is supposed to be a teacher, If so then teach methods you
believe in and also teach that there are other ways to do anything, teach
your students to have an open mind to think for themselves, Do not close it
by making statements such as that.
Ask Anyone that runs a woodworking shop, Custom or Production, what is there
biggest problem, Finding skilled help and finding help that can think
I have been saying for years that 90% of woodworking skill is in home
The real knowledge isn't, I have had many men work for me that had better
hands than I
yet they couldn't come in the shop on a weekend and build themselves a box
without me telling them how.
I see that lack of thinking here on the Rec also.
It' will probably be a cold day in hell if you caught me hand cutting
dovetails and hand planing a board, well that I do do occasionally but not
to the degree some of the guys here do.
The guys that do this truly have gifted hands, more than they probably know.
I won't spend the time or the energy when I can get a machine to do it for
me. I make a living out of this work, I do not have the time to be doing
that kind of stuff by hand.
Good Custom Woodworking requires enough hand work as it is.
There is not a lot of schools in this country that teach woodworking and
over the years I have hired people that went to a school for woodworking and
even a college or two that taught it and then they get into the field and
have trouble getting a job because of some of the garbage that the schools
teach is not the real world and most cannot think past what they learned.
And anyone believing that "all "commercial woodworking is crap is wrong,
there is a lot of good stuff being made commercially
Woodworking has never been a high paying trade in comparison to
Carpenters, Brick layers and anyone else in the trades.
It is actually one of the lowest with the most amount of skill and knowledge
There are many statements on the Rec that I believe are wrong
I may make a post on my thoughts on how I would go about said task and leave
it at that
as I did in this instance.
And even if someone disputes my remarks I mostly would ignore it.
I do not have the time to argue a subject to try and change someones mind.
I post here to try to be of help to fellow woodworkers that truely enjoy and
love what they do
as I do.
However in this instance it was a teacher and that my friend is pathetic.
Make a fool of myself ----Maybe to you and maybe to some others.
But I do believe that most understand what I have been saying
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:58:33 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
I order my stock SLR1E but I still have to straighten a bow once in
awhile and I do that on the tablesaw by carpet taping a long straight
edge to the piece and ripping a straight line. It's faster than the
The blade I use in the tablesaw is fine for glue lines and I no longer
use the jointer for this sort of thing.
I take the cup out of boards on the planer. It's faster and safer.
My jointer is for sale - as it gets very little use and is just taking
Stock prep is boring and time consuming. If you want to spend too
much time at it - keep using your jointer.
I'm with George on this one.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
Don't stop posting your opposing views, George ... exposure to different
viewpoints, particularly those on the "practical" side, as most of yours
seem to be, never hurt anyone. After all, there is already enough 'magazine
inspired' wisdom to go around.
If the electricity went off tomorrow and never came back on, most of us
would have to quit anyway.
Electricity Go Off Oh My God what will I do, <G>
I have a bunch of books on old and I do mean old furniture made way back
Like hundreds of years ago when they had none of that AC DC stuff
I mean to tell you this stuff is ornate as all get out and I
In my head I think about making some of it by hand as they had to,
wow does it ever give me a headache thinking about it.
Thank you Mr Swingman,
I agree with you on the planer issue but I can't agree that it's a make-or-
break issue for a teacher. Mike has added a lot of knowledge to this group.
I disagree with him on one point but I can't fault his knowledge just for
that. I can't think of a teacher I've ever had, met, or seen on TV who I've
agreed with on everything. That includes Frank, David, and a whole lot of
experts who put my piddling work to shame. It just means there's more than
one way to do it.
I can make nice reference face with the planer, but before I got this cute
little 1960's era 4" craftsman jointer, I couldn't get a decent reference
*edge* on a board longer than a foot or two.
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