I find with my WWII the edge to be better than hand planing if I have reversing grain on the piece I am planing (purpleheart currently). I would think once you flatten the face with your hand plane and then run the board through the TS you're good to go. Did you use some short of those metal jointer clamps or make up a jig on your own?
Alan
It is used for dlatening a board The way i look at it if i need to run it over the jointer to flatten it then the board was not any good anyway. If i have a piece that I particuarly like for some reason and it was twisted i may hit it with a hand plane or run it thru the planer with a sled to get rid of the twist, Neither happens to often
nah. set the blade to just kiss the high point. flip the board and repeat. takes a while, but works well. if the board was WAY bent, I'd trim it down a bit first with a skilsaw and chalkline or handheld power plane. Bridger
Dear Woodworker: Yes, most woodworkers should own a jointer. The correct and acceptted way to surface rough lumber is to face joint the material across the jointer, joint one edge, plane to thickness, and then rip on the table saw to width. One thing that all the professional that come to my school to teach have taught me, they are all insistent about face jointing the lumber and squareing the lumber up. You must face joint your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer. A planer only thicknesses lumber, it does Not make it square. Now if you are building simple crafts or yard ornaments then you can get by not using a jointer. If you wish to build a professional quality heirloom piece of furniture then one must buy a jointer and learn how to use it.
Good luck, Mike from American Sycamore
Since you are on the subject... I have been in the market for a 6" jointer and have recently considered that an 8" jointer might be a smarter buy. My planned projects are mainly furniture (A queen bedroom set for my daughter, dressers, tables, etc..) I would classify my woodworking skills as moderate, and am restarting this hobby after a few years hiatus. The 6"/8" jointers I have looked at are of the Grizzly line. Any thoughts?
-- Mike
If you can swing the price difference then an 8" is definately the way to go. That's not to say a hobbiest can't get by just fine with a 6". If your budget dictates a 6" or nothing then go for the 6". If the price difference won't hurt you then go with the 8".
The 8" Grizzly is a real steal. I've heard nothing but praise for it. I have the Geetech from Sunhill and they look like the same machine.
Sorry Mike I have to disagree with that assertion, This to me is just an urban myth in the woodworking field A jointer is probably one of the last tools any shop needs if at all
I know that is not going to change any ones mind of which I do not in any way attempt to do. But it is so wrong to teach that this is the only accepted way to do something.
What ever happened to good old thinking of "hell there has to be a different way" which may or may not be better but in most cases just as good and not to buy a machine that is really not needed.
I have always worked with the attitude of hell there has got to be a better easier way to accomplish any thing and still maintain quality, I try to instill this in anyone that has worked for me over the years.
I can still take any twisted board and run it thru a planer on a sled and get it as flat as anyone can with a jointer. There is really nothing carved in stone in this work, try, attempt your idea's are not all that weird.
You addressed your post to "Dear Woodworker" What does this mean, I would like to hear of yours and anyone else's opinions of what does "Woodworker" mean. Please no quotes from Webster's etc, I can read
Nuff said, George
I proved for 30 years that I really didn't _need_ one, and figured out many ways to overcome the lack thereof ... didn't really miss one till I got one. Now that I have a better one than the first one I had, I like having one even better.
One more tool that I can leave "set up" in the middle of something can be a big time saver. In the middle of cutting and fitting drawer parts drawers, with the dado set in the table saw for cutting the back and bottom grooves, I need a 32nd off the height of that drawer side ... no problem, one pass over the jointer and done in 10 seconds.
A jointer is a luxury? ... maybe. Not at all unlike a wife, if you read the first paragraph again with that in mind.
I shivered when I read that.
George:
So I know that this post is in vain, however I will not argue with Frank Klausz, Andy Rae, Tom Laird, Dale Barnard, Darrell Peart, David Sochar, and and and etc....all professional wood workers that they "walk the walk" they just do not talk about woodworking. One can not argue when you see the work that these people create.
And as far as my greeting, "Dear Woodworker" Is this not rec.woodworking? A web site for woodworkers?
Good Luck Dear Woodworker, Mike from American Sycamore
I have no Idea who these people are. Are they believer's in the Jointer myth? That does not mean that they cannot produce good work, They are entitled to their beliefs, I wouldn't take that from them or even try. What is a pity is that you are teaching people to close their minds to a method that is absolutely "not" the only way to accomplish a particular task. Or that it is even all that necessary in the first place.
I'm not a follower, I keep an open mind to all new ideas, and innovations. And try different things even against the so called only one way methods.
My work has always spoke for me. And as far as "Woodworker" I was pretty sure you had no idea what the name implies.
George
George- You're making a fool of yourself here. nobody has said here that you cannot get by- or even do good work- without a jointer. you might (or not...) want to look up some of the folks Mike cites. practise a little of your own open mindedness.... Mike teaches woodworking- so yes, he has opinions about what is proper and all- but nowhere has he said that good work cannot be done without a jointer. he said "most woodworkers should own a jointer"
jointers exist for a reason. Bridger
Steps for truing stock.
Repost of my stock answer to bi weekly question
**************************************************************************** ***********************************Absolutely necessary. A flat face to work from.
Joint (make flat and straight) one face (reference face) so you have something to true (reference) the remaining three sides to. Not to be done on a planer because the feed rollers will push out any warp and it will reappear as the stock exits the planer. For the same reason use very little down force when jointing.
Joint one edge with the reference face against the jointers fence. This will give you a straight edge that is at 90 degrees to the reference face. Also an edge to reference the next edge.,
Rip a second edge on the table saw with the reference face against the table and the reference edge against the fence. Try to do it on the jointer and it will give you a straight edge but not one necessarily parallel to the first edge.
Now you can plane the piece to a proper thickness with the reference face flat down on the planers feed table. Since the reference face is flat the planer has no warp to press out so the face being planed will be not only be flat but parallel to the reference face.
The jointer performs the two most critical steps in the process (the reference face and edge) but, with sufficient dicking around, there are work arounds. but, without the dicking around, the planer will not perform the functions of a jointer and the jointer will not perform the functions of a planer.
Bridger do you always make a statement about a subject without understanding it ????
Mikes Remark "You must face joint your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer. "
Now that is a pretty bold statement that is not true never has been and never will be. Anyone believing it is entitled to their beliefs and as I said in MY posts I am not trying to change anyone's mind about anything.
What I stated is that there are other ways to do the same thing and to get good results. Had this remark came from you or anyone else in this group I more than likely would have ignored it. However Mike is supposed to be a teacher, If so then teach methods you believe in and also teach that there are other ways to do anything, teach your students to have an open mind to think for themselves, Do not close it by making statements such as that.
Ask Anyone that runs a woodworking shop, Custom or Production, what is there biggest problem, Finding skilled help and finding help that can think I have been saying for years that 90% of woodworking skill is in home workshops. The real knowledge isn't, I have had many men work for me that had better hands than I yet they couldn't come in the shop on a weekend and build themselves a box without me telling them how. I see that lack of thinking here on the Rec also. It' will probably be a cold day in hell if you caught me hand cutting dovetails and hand planing a board, well that I do do occasionally but not to the degree some of the guys here do. The guys that do this truly have gifted hands, more than they probably know.
I won't spend the time or the energy when I can get a machine to do it for me. I make a living out of this work, I do not have the time to be doing that kind of stuff by hand. Good Custom Woodworking requires enough hand work as it is.
There is not a lot of schools in this country that teach woodworking and over the years I have hired people that went to a school for woodworking and even a college or two that taught it and then they get into the field and have trouble getting a job because of some of the garbage that the schools teach is not the real world and most cannot think past what they learned. And anyone believing that "all "commercial woodworking is crap is wrong, there is a lot of good stuff being made commercially
Woodworking has never been a high paying trade in comparison to Plumber's,Electrician, Carpenters, Brick layers and anyone else in the trades. It is actually one of the lowest with the most amount of skill and knowledge required There are many statements on the Rec that I believe are wrong I may make a post on my thoughts on how I would go about said task and leave it at that as I did in this instance. And even if someone disputes my remarks I mostly would ignore it. I do not have the time to argue a subject to try and change someones mind. I post here to try to be of help to fellow woodworkers that truely enjoy and love what they do as I do. However in this instance it was a teacher and that my friend is pathetic.
Make a fool of myself ----Maybe to you and maybe to some others. But I do believe that most understand what I have been saying
George
innovations.
professional
I order my stock SLR1E but I still have to straighten a bow once in awhile and I do that on the tablesaw by carpet taping a long straight edge to the piece and ripping a straight line. It's faster than the jointer.
The blade I use in the tablesaw is fine for glue lines and I no longer use the jointer for this sort of thing.
I take the cup out of boards on the planer. It's faster and safer.
My jointer is for sale - as it gets very little use and is just taking up space.
Stock prep is boring and time consuming. If you want to spend too much time at it - keep using your jointer.
I'm with George on this one.
Regards, Tom Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
Don't stop posting your opposing views, George ... exposure to different viewpoints, particularly those on the "practical" side, as most of yours seem to be, never hurt anyone. After all, there is already enough 'magazine inspired' wisdom to go around.
If the electricity went off tomorrow and never came back on, most of us would have to quit anyway.
On Mon 29 Dec 2003 11:58:33a, "George M. Kazaka" wrote in news:eXZHb.535$ snipped-for-privacy@news.uswest.net:
I agree with you on the planer issue but I can't agree that it's a make-or- break issue for a teacher. Mike has added a lot of knowledge to this group. I disagree with him on one point but I can't fault his knowledge just for that. I can't think of a teacher I've ever had, met, or seen on TV who I've agreed with on everything. That includes Frank, David, and a whole lot of experts who put my piddling work to shame. It just means there's more than one way to do it.
I can make nice reference face with the planer, but before I got this cute little 1960's era 4" craftsman jointer, I couldn't get a decent reference
*edge* on a board longer than a foot or two.Dan
Just got through edge jointing about 200 lineal feet of 4/4 and 8/4 stock using the aux fence on the TS. The fence is a 42" hunk of 3/4" MDF with a shy 1/16" strip of hardwood glued to the outfeed side. Calmped the aux fence to the real fence and raised the blade along the edge and flush with the outside of the hardwood strip. Some of the stock took up to 4 passes, but the final result is perfectly straight 8' long edges. Saw this in a Pop Woodworking article and thought I'd give it a try. Love it - straight and fast.
-Doug
Electricity Go Off Oh My God what will I do, I have a bunch of books on old and I do mean old furniture made way back when, Like hundreds of years ago when they had none of that AC DC stuff I mean to tell you this stuff is ornate as all get out and I In my head I think about making some of it by hand as they had to, wow does it ever give me a headache thinking about it.
Thank you Mr Swingman,
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